the data is not incomplete.

 

you get the points from TNP to BASET by selecting TNP as the transition when you select the STAR.

 

it is sort of moot since the point of that star is that you get vectors from REEDR to southwest of the airport and back around from atc. there is no way you could decend from the 9000 ft crossing restriction at REEDR and land at the ILS25 that is less than 5nm away.

I'll argue that the data isn't so much "incomplete" as incorrect. As I read the Arrival Route Description, because it specifies RW6L/R and 7L/R, the arrival should be coded in the FMS as runway specific. This is how the European SIDs/STARs are coded, as are many US procedures. This isn't an issue with Navigraph, but likely the data provider (Jeppesen) reading the ARD with a bit more ambiguity. Any pilot should be able to look at the ARD and see that you'd never get the BASET arrival unless you were expecting to land east flow.

I'll argue that the data isn't so much "incomplete" as incorrect. As I read the Arrival Route Description, because it specifies RW6L/R and 7L/R, the arrival should be coded in the FMS as runway specific. This is how the European SIDs/STARs are coded, as are many US procedures. This isn't an issue with Navigraph, but likely the data provider (Jeppesen) reading the ARD with a bit more ambiguity. Any pilot should be able to look at the ARD and see that you'd never get the BASET arrival unless you were expecting to land east flow.

 

hi! yeah, as far as being incomplete i was referring to his not seeing the complete waypoints of the TNP transition as part of theSTAR in the FMS, as they will only be entered into the flightplan if the transition is selected when the STAR is selected.

 

as far as the other issue with PFPX incorrectly assigning the STAR in the first place, yeah it is either an omission or miscommunication in the data. from talking to the dev from voxatc a long time ago there was some confusion about a lot of american STARs specifically because they are not officially restricted to a specific runway, and thus the navigraph does not fully reflect those restrictions, so it is difficult for an automated program to make a decision about which one is appropriate even though in practice they would only be used for specific runways. i don't really know all the details about why that would need to be stored differently or what is gained by not doing it that way, but i'm sure somebody does lol..

 

cheers

-andy crosby

 

 

DEP: It says, Wavey: expect vectors to R156 (115.9 JFK)

ARR: RILEY6



Anyways, did the return to KLAS, PFPX came up with something, but I used an actual route from flightaware : KLAX LOOP8 DAG KEPEC3 KLAS. No spaghetti, just an S Since i did a downwind 01L

Getting closer. For Departure I would use JFK3 and then Vectors to WAVEY. The Arrival is right. It is just misspelled. It should be HILEY6. At KLAS, KEPEC3 is used for 25L and 25R. It shows that clearly on the Approach Plate. For 01L I would use CRESO3 with Vectors to the 01ILS Approach after WHIGG and see how that looked on the ND by stepping thru the route. 

Hi,

 

still learning the FMC..

 

I have Navigraph and PFPX.

 

If I plan a route, I add the SID and STAR for the the runways in the FMC.

 

However, I have no idea which one to choose for my particular route. I know that if you pick an runway, it shows the appropriate, possible SIDS and STARS, still a lot to choose from....

 

I try to find these somewhere in programs and documentation, but no luck until now. I pick one that seems kinda ok, stepping through the legs, sometimes end up with spaghetti

 

Where/how can I find the options available in the FMC on charts? (Would save me some fuel too ;-) )

 

thanks,

 

Tony

Better than that...how about VISUAL SIDS/STARS/APPROACHES TO SEE what to plan??

 

look at 3:26

 

Hope this helps

Chas

One tip you may or may not find helpful:

 

If you turn the MFD knob one click right off MAP to PLN, it will give you an option on your LEGS page in the FMC that says "STEP", clicking this will allow you to step through each leg of your route and see what it looks like on the MFD. If your STAR is totally the wrong (sending you in the wrong direction) one you'll see it there.

 

 

as far as the other issue with PFPX incorrectly assigning the STAR in the first place, yeah it is either an omission or miscommunication in the data. from talking to the dev from voxatc a long time ago there was some confusion about a lot of american STARs specifically because they are not officially restricted to a specific runway, and thus the navigraph does not fully reflect those restrictions, so it is difficult for an automated program to make a decision about which one is appropriate even though in practice they would only be used for specific runways. i don't really know all the details about why that would need to be stored differently or what is gained by not doing it that way, but i'm sure somebody does lol..
 

Just for follow up on this, I went and looked at the FAA suggested coding for the arrival, which listed it as applicable for all runways. This is likely what Jeppesen followed for their data. Other data providers may modify the coding to be consistent with the ARD. 

I am a bit sure:

 

 

DEP: KLAS/LAS 19R 

 

AWY      WAYPOINT   MT    ALT  WND/VEL   TAS   REM  FUEL REM / USED   LEG   ACC

         NAME             TMP     FREQ    GS  DIST  POSITION          ETO / ATO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

         KLAS/19R      2181                        8.6 /   0.3            

         MC CARRAN INTL                      255  N3604.8 W11509.1 ...../.....

 

         *TOC      183FL340    302/046  450     87       5.7 /   3.3 :15   00:15

                          -54           461    168  N3440.8 W11535.8 ...../.....

 

DCT      TNP       182FL340    302/038  449     35       5.3 /   3.7 :04   00:19

         TWENTYNINE PALMS -54   114.20  460    133  N3406.7 W11546.2 ...../.....

 

         *TOD      248FL340    302/038  449     32       4.9 /   4.0 :05   00:24

                          -54           421    101  N3401.3 W11623.7 ...../.....

 

BASET3   IPHIW     248*DES                 4       4.8 /   4.1 :01   00:25

                                              97  N3400.6 W11628.4 ...../.....

 

BASET3   ARRVD     252*DES                13       4.8 /   4.1 :01   00:26

                                              84  N3359.1 W11644.0 ...../.....

 

BASET3   KONZL     252*DES                19       4.8 /   4.1 :04   00:30

                                              65  N3357.3 W11706.7 ...../.....

 

BASET3   TRTLE     252*DES                 6       4.8 /   4.2 :01   00:31

                                              59  N3356.6 W11713.9 ...../.....

 

BASET3   PDZ       252*DES                15       4.7 /   4.2 :02   00:33

         PARADISE ONTARIO     112.20          44  N3355.1 W11731.8 ...../.....

 

BASET3   CACTS     268*DES                 6       4.7 /   4.2 :02   00:35

                                              38  N3356.1 W11738.9 ...../.....

 

BASET3   BASET     267*DES                17       4.6 /   4.3 :03   00:38

                                              22  N3358.7 W11758.7 ...../.....

 

BASET3   DOWNE     251*DES                 7       4.5 /   4.4 :02   00:40

                                              14  N3357.9 W11807.4 ...../.....

 

BASET3   REEDR     251  128    078/000  258      8       4.5 /   4.5 :02   00:42

                          +18           234      7  N3356.9 W11816.6 ...../.....

 

BASET3   KLAX/25R  254  128                7       4.3 /   4.6 :02   00:44

         LOS ANGELES INTL                         N3356.5 W11824.5 ...../.....

 

ARR: KLAX/LAX 25R 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My problem is not finding the correct "real life" route. The route above is a flyable one.

 

However, how can I let the FMC execute it?

 

Thats where I am stuck

Using Flightaware.com it's easy to find out what route is commonly being used between most North American airports. For KLAX to KLAS its...

 

LOOP8 DAG KEPEC3

 

extremely easy to enter into the PMDG's FMC.

 

Dave

Yes, I will...

 

Hoped that PFPX made my life easy, ehhh click and fly

 

But.

 

Tony

Better than that...how about VISUAL SIDS/STARS/APPROACHES TO SEE what to plan??

look at 3:26

Hope this helps
Chas

 

Thats pretty nice.

 

But, bought enough stuff for now. Even the sim says Banking, Banking all the time :(

 

Tony

PFPX usually picks BASET3 for an arrival from the northeast. On FlightAware I have never seen it used. According to FlightAware BOACH6 HEC RIIVR2 is the route being used by AAL 145 today. For flights within the United States Flightaware will have the route. The link to the site is - http://flightaware.com/. For flights within the U.S., I copy/paste the route from FlightAware into PFPX and then build it. Don't use PFPX to find routes within the U.S. unless you can't find a real world route.

I had no idea you could do this... thanks!!