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Meeko

ILS Capture - How to

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With the appalling lack of any flight tutorial, would somebody please give me a clue on the following;

 

-  When flying in Nav Source - FMS1, and approaching an airport with an ILS, what's the procedure in order to capture the ILS?  

 

I have entered the ILS frequency in NAV1 in the TUN page of the FMS but unsure how to enter (where-ever) the course while in FMS1.  I've found pressing 'Approach' seems to bring it on the localiser, although that could just be the FMS1 doing that, but there is no indication of the glideslope.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Bruce R

 

 

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With the appalling lack of any flight tutorial, would somebody please give me a clue on the following;

 

- When flying in Nav Source - FMS1, and approaching an airport with an ILS, what's the procedure in order to capture the ILS?

 

I have entered the ILS frequency in NAV1 in the TUN page of the FMS but unsure how to enter (where-ever) the course while in FMS1. I've found pressing 'Approach' seems to bring it on the localiser, although that could just be the FMS1 doing that, but there is no indication of the glideslope. Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Bruce R

Hello Bruce,

 

You are almost there. The Course select button is just below the FMS. Three knobs. CRS, ALT, HDG. Turn the CRS knob to the ILS course. You can use the popups for setting up your approach.

 

Use NAV until you see LOC capture and then Glidescope movement then select APPR. Be slightly below your FAF altitude when selecting APPR mode. Good luck.

 

Regards,

Ray

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What confused me for a while on the C90 is that what shows next to the Preset button on the PFD is the mode you'll be in when you click the Preset button. Use the mousewheel on the upper-inner knob of the DCP to change the preset to LOC1 (or it might say VOR1 if you're not receiving the localizer yet) and load your frequency like you did, when you're ready to let the ILS take over just click the Preset button to put you in LOC1 mode and your glideslope should show up. Hit APPR and ride it down.

One caution is that the frequency must be the actual sim frequency so if an ILS frequency has changed between when FSX was released and your navigraph cycle the FMS will show you a frequency that won't work even though it's correct for the real world. Cross check the frequency with the FS map or PlanG and if it's different use the one from FS rather than what the FMS tells you to use.

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Thanks Ray and Jim for your replies.  Got it!  I knew where the course selector knob was, but I was finding it didn't do anything.  I know now I have to be in VOR1 mode to have it display the course setting.  Getting into VOR1 was a bit of a mystery solved by your comments.  I must say it's not all that reliable.  Even after clicking on the LSK1 on the PFD and hi-lighting the NAV SOURCE with a square box, and turning the outer DATA knob on the Display Control Panel, it doesn't always go through FMS1, VOR1, VOR2.  I have to persevere a bit in order to scroll down.  It get there in the end.

 

Jim, I can see where you're coming from with the preset button.  I wandered what it was for.  I haven't tried it yet but will on my next flight. 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

Bruce R 

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I've noticed a problem with clicking the APPR button, same deal as on the C90, the APPR button is simply un-clickable under certain circumstances. See this post though, the workaround is the same:

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/482338-glideslope-intercept/page-3#entry3367837

 

Yikes seen this thread and its a ton to get a grip on - need something more condensed - thanks Jim  :wink:

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Yeah I agree, that thread was confusing as heck. :smile:

 

Condensed version:

In a nutshell what the linked post says is if you find yourself unable to click the APPR button to lock onto a glideslope try hitting the VS button momentarily and then try the APPR button again, it should "stick" that time.

 

Jim

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Yeah I agree, that thread was confusing as heck. :smile:

 

Condensed version:

In a nutshell what the linked post says is if you find yourself unable to click the APPR button to lock onto a glideslope try hitting the VS button momentarily and then try the APPR button again, it should "stick" that time.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim

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Hi guys

 

Having a similar issue a/c doesnt seem to want to descend on the GS?

 

NAV selected then localiser capture select APP (below GS) and GS indicator shows GS capture and a/c contines same altutude? Is there an official fix for this as selecting VS momentarily doesnt always seem to work?

 

Cheers :smile:

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Hi guys

 

Having a similar issue a/c doesnt seem to want to descend on the GS?

 

NAV selected then localiser capture select APP (below GS) and GS indicator shows GS capture and a/c contines same altutude? Is there an official fix for this as selecting VS momentarily doesnt always seem to work?

 

Cheers :smile:

 

A screenshot of your front panel gauges / autopilot would be helpful.

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Hi guys

 

Many thanks for the replies, here is a screenie final RWY16 LSZH

 

Anything obvious as to why no GS capture to descend? (pic is after 'capture' from below, just seems to have gone through without descent?)

 

148ojyf.png

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Looks like you are not capturing the G/S from below it.

 

When you do a screenshot like this POP up the PFD so more detail can be shown.

 

How fare out are you in this screenshot (looks like 7.5 )?

 

What is your altitude?

Why is zero (O) altitude dialed during the approach?

 

To see for sure a video of the capture from say 10nm at 4000 feet out so we could see the ILS working / not working .. or several screenshots during the capture.

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Anything obvious as to why no GS capture to descend?

 

This is what you will see starting D13 IZH 4000 feet for the approach then onto the G/S and ready ALT for GoAround. watch the ALT hold led = off automatically when G/S intercepted.

 

LSZH-16 Appr

 

Basically 3 feeders (all at 4000 feet) to select from (I have an old plate) for the LOC intercept.

 

LSZH-ILS16-plate1_zpsm9ixjh0p.jpg

 

 

ILS16-1_zpskcisvdqo.jpg

 

 

 

ILS16-2_zpseimusajz.jpg

 

 

 

ILS16-3_zpsjiu1fu3d.jpg

 

 

Zoomed shots:

 

ILS16-1a_zpsqhuflplr.jpg

 

ILS16-2a_zpsalx8dbsz.jpg

 

 

ILS16-3a_zpshjli4y51.jpg

 

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Thank you very much for the helpful post.

 

I will see if I can replicate this tonight and report back.

 

As aside info - GS was attampted to capture from below, 4000 FT MSA at >8DME (pic shows 7.5DME)

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You are welcome.

 

Example:

Do the full approach from 13 DME per approach plate. Start taking screenshots of your ILS APPR (PDF zoomed/popup).

HDG dialed / HDG mode set for LOC intercept.

Press LOC in prep for intercept.

LOC captured and on LOC 11DME 4000 feet.

10DME G/S will be alive (not time to go down yet) displayed on PDF.

Slow down.

9 DME Gear / flaps set for final.

slow down

Press the APPR button

ALT HOLD still active ... Nearing G/S intercept now.

When G/S is intercepted ALT will trip OFF and you will be on G/S Glide Path and starting down.

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Hi

 

OK managed to fly exact same route last night and here are my screenies:

 

143g6lu.png

 

 

wi4qp1.png

 

 

 

29c0x9s.png

 

 

Probably a whole heap of piloting errors however, any help greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers

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Russ,

"Probably a whole heap of piloting errors however, any help greatly appreciated!"

 

 

 

What is your fully configured approach speed with approach flaps and gear down prior to G/S intercept (DME 8.9)?

 

What was mine?

 

Just for info:

Are you using FSX or P3D?

 

Are you using default scenery?

 

Do you have this problem at all airports all ILS's?

 

 

 

Ok, see you again tomorrow.

Have a good day.

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Hi Vaughan

 

Many thanks once again, yes I was a tad fast however, the a/c slows down quite quickly when you throw out the LG & flaps :)

 

I am using P3D V3 and the scenery is FSDreamteam LSZH - I have had issues at other airports however, I dont really fly to any default locations?

 

WiIl try another test elsewhere and report back :wink:

 

Cheers

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"Many thanks once again, yes I was a tad fast however, the a/c slows down quite quickly when you throw out the LG & flaps"

 

That is why ,in my previous post ... instructions ...  I asked you to slow down twice and when to push buttons.

 

So we would be doing the same testing and should get the same results / screenshots.

 

And, I would need screenshots starting at 10 nm out , just before G/S, at G/S and just after G/S intercept... or maybe do a video.

 

 

 

"I have had issues at other airports however, I dont really fly to any default locations?"

You have to do that to test things ....

 

That is why I asked about default scenery .. your G/S at DMEs looked different than mine ....

 

 

So, do you have this problem at any or all default airport(s)? Or are some working ok?

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Guys, I see on screenshots above that your approach speed is at about 200 kts. Try the next technique for approach and landing (as it is in flight manual):

1. Reduce throttle to 65-69% N1 in tower proximity (20-15 nm to rwy). Your speed in clean configuration will be around 180-195 kts.

2. Before capturing GS (1 dot below) set flaps for approach (8 grad).

3. At 2200-2500 feet AGL gears down.

4. At 150 kts flaps for landing (20 grad).

5. At 400 feet AGL A/P off. Lazy fellows can keep it on :)

Keep in mind that Vref is between 93 and 111 depending on weight.

6. At 50 feet AGL spoilers extend and a liiitle bit yoke up.

7. After touchdown throttles to idle, flaps in ground position (40 grad) and apply full brakes - antiskid will help you.

 

Well, this is my receipt for smooth and gracious landing. If anyone wants I can make a video proof.

Happy flying!

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Try the next technique for approach and landing (as it is in flight manual):

 

That is not his reported problem.

 

He reported cannot get a descent needle G/S indication [says at 4000 feet at G/S intercept] and cannot fly down the G/S for the final approach.

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Hi

 

Sorry for the delay, had time to test again at a different airport (& approach).

 

Again capture ILS (& GS from below), flaps and LG down and again the aircraft does not descend on the GS?

 

Pic attached (you can see the ac has flown straight through GS)

 

2laym4p.png

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