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G-YMML1

Autogen Settings and stuttering on the approaches

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Hello,

 

While I'm having pretty much acceptable level of FPS (17-22) with autogen VERY DENSE for trees and DENSE for buildings on most of the approaches for heavy airports with 100% AI, the micro stuttering is killing me. Turning down Autogen is reducing stuttering, but not increase FPS. I have i7-6700k OC-ed to 4.7 with AF=14 and HT=OFF according to Steve's instructions for 4-cores CPUs. P3D is on the cores 1-2-3 and ASN and other stuff such as RC4/PATC are on Core 0. I also have 980Ti and 361.XX drivers. Two EVO SSDs. NVI FPS limiter to 30FPS with Unlimited FPS in P3D menu.

 

Would appreciate your suggestions 

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Have you tried turning traffic to 0. I have an identical system as you with the same OC etc. I run max autogen and maintain 30 fps 99% of the time. I basically use Rob A high settings.

 

The only difference is I do not use AI and I run AM 116 with HT On. No other changes are made in the cfg file. I do run unlimited but with a 30hz 4K monitor so that would also be different.

 

I understand most people love the ai but see if that helps your stutter then you can increase it a little at a time. I've never cared for ai as they just seem to screw up a perfect approach.

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Nope. Cannot turn off AI as it's 50% of my hobby. And yes, I realize that turning AI off will get me out of stuttering misery.  

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I didn't see what graphics or AA settings you're using.  Are you using DSR?

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No DSR - 2x or 4x SGSAA via NVI and 2x or 4xMSAA in P3D Menu (MSAA settings usually matche those for SGSAA). No FSAA, 16x AA, no Vsync

 

Again, it's not about FPS, it's about stuttering. It happens even with minimum amount of autogen. 

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There's a couple of things you could try, assign more cores to addons avoiding core 1, or allowing the sim onto all four cores.


Currently with AM=14 you have presented three logical processors (LPs) to the sim. You could try allowing the sim to split into four parts and move your addons away from core 0.

...from the P3D documentation:

"By default, Prepar3D will use all available processor cores. On machines with four or more cores, it will dedicate a core to rendering tasks."

What this means is that when P3D is allowed onto four logical processors (LPs), it will split out into all of its constituent parts, leaving the first thread job at its leanest. By removing the P3D AffinityMask, it will assume an AM=15=1111 on the four core HT disabled. We need to explicitly keep addons off of core zero. Assigning addons only one LP can also cause some poor performance especially with networked addons (simconnect). Put them on cores 1 and 3.


Another thing to try would be to leave AM=14, remember this does leave the main sim job encumbered with another, but assign your addons two LPs. If your addons are only running on core zero, try allowing onto core zero and core 3.

HT enabled increases the opportunity for several configurations spreading out processes to utilise hyperthreading, but could mean dropping the overclock.

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I find on my machine, i7 4770 OC to 4.4 with a 980ti that the default AM works best. I don't enter anything into the CFG, I think it is there automatically. I have one tweak in my cfg and that is the FFTF set to 0.10.

 

The best thing to do is reduce the AI percentage. That makes a big difference. Also, don't push the LOD too high. Don't try and be a hero and pin all the sliders to the right. Half mast to 3/4 mast is plenty nice. I get a fairly stable and smooth performance, and I even use NVI 4XSSGA with the usual in game display settings, which gives a fantastic picture.

 

Lee

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No way for AI reduction. That's the reason I invested so much money into good hardware. Also, I don't use MT/UT products rather my own custom AI build-up.

 

LOD = medium, it's 3.5 I guess. As long as remaining VAS is ok to complete he flight, I'm not messing with LOD at all. 

 

FFTF = 0.10. I know it reduces the stutters (not much), but generates blurries unfortunately. 


Steve,

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Just to summarize your plan. 

 

1. Remove AF line from P3D.cfg at all and let P3D utilizes all 4 cores. 

2. Assigned ASN to the core 0 and 3 (first and forth processors)

 

Correct?

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With no AM the sim will want full use of core zero, so give addons cores 1 and 3 so they avoid zero.

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Got it, thanks. Will run the test later tonight

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Careful with traffic optimizer in P3D V3.2, it's been crashing a lot. It needs to be updated.

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Folks,

 

I meant that it's my intention (a deliberate one) to keep 100% realistic AI all around the world. I carefully maintain models, schedules, ADEs etc. Some sort of hobby within the hobby :-)

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I meant that it's my intention (a deliberate one) to keep 100% realistic AI all around the world. I carefully maintain models, schedules, ADEs etc. Some sort of hobby within the hobby :-)

 

Maybe you should be in the control tower?  :)

 

gb.

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Your hardware simply can't keep up with everything you're throwing at it, made worse by the fact that FSX/P3D in general is very bad in handling AI traffic - it was never designed to handle large volumes of customised traffic.

You can't expect everything to run smoothly if you overload your system, and I would not be surprised if the "17-22" FPS you're seeing comes at the expense of other issues such as blurry ground textures etc. - not even to mention all the VAS all that traffic consumes.

Let's assume you are sitting on the runway in LHR with your "real-world" AI at 100%. It will load hundreds, if not thousands of AI aircraft in Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, City Aiport, Northolt, Southend and anything that's flying over. When you have default FSX/P3D AI you get a handful of aircraft parked somewhere, so expecting the sim to deal with thousands of them is simply not going to work.

You can either accept the fact that 100% is overkill and get a smooth sim experience, or you can stick to it and keep having stutters and problems. I understand that AI is nice, I always loved it in my FS9 days and had it all set up nicely with customised and realistic traffic in all the airports.

When I moved to P3D I tried using AI traffic in the beginning, but I have simply given up on it now and fly without it. The result is a wonderfully smooth experience with FPS rarely dropping below 30 even in a bad weather approach into LHR in the PMDG 777 with most sliders full right or 3/4 right.

It's up to you, hang on to something that will cause guaranteed issues or compromise and enjoy the sim. If you want 100% realistic traffic, go to your local airport and do some spotting ;)

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Pete Dowson is flying with 100% AI at EGLL, why I cannot? :-)

 

I made some tests yesterday with no AM and add-ones at cores 1 and 3, and found that AM=14 is still the best solution so far in terms of stuttering elimination balance. Yes, autogen put a lot of pressure on the system, so I'd rather get rid of it completely especially in heavy airports such as JFK or ORD.  

 

Speebird - I can easily have 30FPS at EGLL with 100% AI, UTX,GEP3D, ASN, REX, 4x SGSAA. FPS is not a problem as I mentioned above, but stuttering is. And yes, modern systems CAN handle 100% AI even in KJFK and KORD with proper AI set-up (meaning textures and models). Just stop by at AIG (Alpha India Group) forums if you want to know more.

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Without blaming someone, but have you been at Pete's place and watched his rig on the fly? I guess not. Videos never really recapitulate microstutters, I can record a video inside P3D with 12-15FPS, hardly tolerable on my rig, terrific microstutters and then, I simply tell to have a 30FPS video with normalized FPS and it looks super fluent. I personally never trust videos showing fluent gameplay in FSX or P3D unless the FPS counter is visible. But even then, the microstutters are lost in the video in most of the times. So? Do you have a link proving "Pete Dowson is flying with 100% AI at EGLL"? In my case, I use UT2 and I set UT2 to 50% inside the GUI of UT2. But even with those settings, I am easily down to 20FPS or even lower at EGLL.

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I made some tests yesterday with no AM and add-ones at cores 1 and 3, and found that AM=14 is still the best solution so far in terms of stuttering elimination balance.

Seems the addons are a bit too heavy and need the entire core zero. The other thing was, did you try allowing them two threads? So keeping the AM=14 and putting addons on 0, & 3 rather than just 0, which can help in some cases.

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Guys, you can believe in whatever you want to believe. I'm merely sharing my experience.  


Seems the addons are a bit too heavy and need the entire core zero. The other thing was, did you try allowing them two threads? So keeping the AM=14 and putting addons on 0, & 3 rather than just 0, which can help in some cases.

 

Thanks Steve. As the weekend is coming, I'm going to devote a bit more time for testing.

 

Here is the simple example. Yesterday I flew from T2G EDDM to UK2000 EGLL with NGX. Nice weather, ASN, UTX, REX, stable 28-30FPS. Once the first trees from autogen shows up, the stuttering begins, while FPS remained the same. Very strange!!! Logically speaking, more load on the system should dial FPS down, but it didn't happen in my case. Once I killed autogen, the stuttering is gone.

 

To put it simple - if it were an issue with FPS alone, I would not have started this topic as then my problem is self-explanatory and the solution is clear (put sliders to the left). However, since I don't have this problem, I'm a bit confused. 

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Speebird - I can easily have 30FPS at EGLL with 100% AI, UTX,GEP3D, ASN, REX, 4x SGSAA. FPS is not a problem as I mentioned above, but stuttering is. And yes, modern systems CAN handle 100% AI even in KJFK and KORD with proper AI set-up (meaning textures and models). Just stop by at AIG (Alpha India Group) forums if you want to know more.

 

Nobody doubts, but certainly not with all sliders to the right. Example: Pete Dowson movie from EGLL:

 

Well, yes. With this amount of autogen (basically none at all, check from minute 5:00 onwards) I would easily reach 30FPS on EGLL even with a lot of AI traffic. But honestly, in contrast to what I said above, you can clearly see in this videos that FPS are far below 30 and certainly not as fluent as I would like to have.

 

What I want to say: sometimes people disagree here in the forums because they do not talk about the same (or identical) prerequisite. So, yes, I do believe you that you can easily have 30FPS at EGLL with 100% AI traffic, but then it will probably look like in the movie I found...

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Are those 4k monitors that Pete is using? Then I understand why there are blurries and no autogen at all. I have a single 2k monitor+2560 native resolution with 1024 in-sim textures. This is probable why I'm so lucky with my EGLL FPS.  

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If you are using traffic add-ons, such as MyTraffic, setting AI traffic to 100% is not only a waste of resources, but highly unrealistic at US airports (the story is different if you fly somewhere in Mongolia). You have incessant traffic jams, go-arounds, etc. Setting the slider to 30% gives you a better representation of the reality and saves on resources.

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I. DO. NOT. USE. MY. TRAFFIC. I. DO. NOT. USE. MY. TRAFFIC. :t0103: 



 

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I. DO. NOT. USE. MY. TRAFFIC. I. DO. NOT. USE. MY. TRAFFIC. :t0103:

 

What do you use then? Default AI?

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No way for AI reduction. That's the reason I invested so much money into good hardware. Also, I don't use MT/UT products rather my own custom AI build-up.

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