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Flexman

Speedbrake Lever in the way - Leapmotion

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Hello, I know there's a post about this issue appearing after some update.

Now that I'm using Oculust Rift and Leap Motion, the problem with the Speed Brake being in the wrong position when stowed, has become an issue. When you use Leapmotion and Oculus Rift, you use your hands and fingers to "touch" every switch and knob in the cockpit. Now that the speed brake lever is so low, it covers some CDU keys and it's impossible to press them without touching the speed brake lever.

Is a fix for something like this impossible in this point in time?

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Is a fix for something like this impossible in this point in time?

Any answer in this Forum is going to be nothing more than speculation. I would submit a ticket to PMDG at - http://support.precisionmanuals.com. You might need to register first before logging in to support. The eCommerce and support logins are different. Just copy/paste paragraphs 2 and 3 into your support ticket.

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Crikey, I'd be happy at this stage that you have a working soultion...at all....mustin grumble.

 

 

Must be pretty difficult using the leap hand?

 

Would image the Oculus is pretty cool with head tracking working?

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Is a fix for something like this impossible in this point in time?

 

Not quite sure what the issue even is here...

 

"Wrong position" as determined by...?

 

Moreover, neither the sim nor our product in it were designed for the Oculus.

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"Wrong position" as determined by...?

 

As determined by where the Speedbrake Lever rests in the real airplane when it's in the down position.

 

 

 

 

How is the NGX "frames per second" in Oculus RIft? Is it satisfactory?

 

It's just PERFECT. The cockpit size feels just perfect. You're in there! Frame rates in the oculus rift are hardly a problem when you have a decent computer. I doubt the requisites of P3D with an Oculus Rift are different than P3D on a normal screen. You have to know that head rotation isn't always camera rotation, as there's a dome larger than your field of view, and when rotating your head in it, you're just rotating rift FOV, but not actual in sim camera FOV. If you go beyond that dome, you notice less than 90fps as p3d camera has to rotate, but when you're in it, it's very smooth. There's zero lag. It actually feels like your head is in the cockpit. That dome is large enough to cover the main panel and overhead. Now, head translation does move the camera, so that's game fps, not rift fps. My computer is not bad, so I haven't had a problem. No nausea at all (as long as I fly responsibly).

The gauges and even the small text are perfectly readable. I can even set the minimums on the PFD withoug having to lean in. CDU is perfectly readable. You can import floating windows inside of P3D, so you can use Navigraph charts or even the browser without having to take the Oculus Rift off. The way the mouse cursor is implemented in 3d space is also very natural. It takes a little getting used to, but in a few hours, you'll find yourself running through flows as quickly as you'd do in the real airplane: You just look and click.

 

The bottom line is, P3D and the Rift are made for each other. I would never use the sim with a normal screen ever again (not even for IFR training).

 

VR for flight simulation is a big deal. A BIG BIG DEAL. I cried a little the first time I put that visor on and saw myself actually inside that cold and dark cockpit. I've been using flight simulator since version 5.0

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As determined by where the Speedbrake Lever rests in the real airplane when it's in the down position.

 

Source?

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I would tend to say that your camera position may be slightly "wrong" - not the actual lever position.

I'm no Oculus Rift user, but I'd suggest you try to adjust the general view point, if at all possible.

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I would tend to say that your camera position may be slightly "wrong" - not the actual lever position.

 

I'm no Oculus Rift user, but I'd suggest you try to adjust the general view point, if at all possible.

That's not how the rift works. With the Rift, your camera is your head. In order to use the CDU, you have to move your head in ways you don't have to in the real airplane. That's what I'm saying. In the real airplane, if you lean towards the CDU, elbow on your knee, you see the whole keyboard. In the NGX, the lever covers some keys.

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yeah, different camera position. Agree with Gunnar.  Note the radii of the pedestal: different angles.

 

moot point, Kyle asked for a reference.  Pictures from the internet will never be considered technical references.  PMDG had access to Boeing when the model was developed, and they rightfully want to see vetted references before they accept data that would change what they have in place.

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It's just PERFECT. The cockpit size feels just perfect. You're in there! Frame rates in the oculus rift are hardly a problem when you have a decent computer.

What good news! Oculus and similar devices are the future of flight simulation.... BTW, your pictures of the speedbrake in the RW and in the NGX are pretty clear, show clearly the position of the speedbrake in the NGX is too low... But the NGX is a "work in progress", not a finished and unchangeable product... They will launch the 2.0 somewhere in the future, hopefully after the 747 V2 and the DC-6.... So, I think they will take your observation into account...

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Perspective is almost impossible to match now that I don't use ezca.

Still... look at it! count the screws on the sides of the speedbrake guide. Look at how much bigger the stab trim guide is. I know it must be have been very hard for PMDG to model a cockpit that feels real without having measured every length and angle in a grounded 737. The cockpit feels close to the real one, but just on a normal screen, like we've been using for years, but now that I'm "inside" that cockpit with Oculus Rift (you're underestimating when I say "I'm in the cockpit") and given that I've spend enough time in the real airplane to know where the speedbrake lever is when my hand is on the CDU, you should at least consider that I have reasons to post this.

I don't know. Maybe there are variants. Maybe that distance is something an operator can decide on. Maybe maintenance can choose to fit a bigger stop for the lever. I don't know. All I'm saying is that I know the cockpit is not 100% precise, because it doesn't need to be. But at least, things like these, which are obviously an issue when you're inside the cockpit in VR, should be considered.

vxvGsAQ.gif

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But at least, things like these, which are obviously an issue when you're inside the cockpit in VR, should be considered.

 

vxvGsAQ.gif

Not sure it's worth an update from them. It's not like they were taking into account vr headset usage when they were developing it from 2008-2011

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Not sure it's worth an update from them. It's not like they were taking into account vr headset usage when they were developing it from 2008-2011

That's what I suspect. It's not that big a deal though. Seriously, you guys can't possibly imagine what it's like to fly these things with Oculus Rift. I almost had second thoughts about continuing my pilot training... and then I took the Rift off.

That cockpit is a lonely place! I almost feel like I'm doing something very illegal when taking off in a 737 with no second pilot.

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you guys can't possibly imagine what it's like to fly these things with Oculus Rift.

 

Omar,

 

I think I can, I flew one of the CAE electric B737-900 sims a while back.  PMDG has done an excellent job.  I'll pass along something my IP told me when I was getting checked out in the C-47 (DC-3), "you may need to adjust your seat". :smile:

 

blaustern

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That's not how the rift works. With the Rift, your camera is your head.

 

Yeah, I figured as much. Nevertheless, there's got to be a way to "adjust the seat", like Bluestar put it. The view of the Oculus Rift has got to have a point of origin as well, doesn't it?

 

As a workaround, would it help to put the lever in the armed position? Would that be enough to temporarily move it out of the way? Not very realistic, of course, but that wouldn't interfere with flying the aircraft.

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Are you using FlyInside or simular?  Yes the Rift is head tracking, but it must have a determind head height or scale, or a location to start from.

 

I have used the rift DK2 and it is possible to make yourself bigger or smaller.

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Guys, trust me, it's not the camera. The lever is just in the wrong "up" position, period.

This is what's happening. See the physical stop circled in red? That's where the speed brake take-off warning switch is. That thing is correctly modelled in the NGX. In the real 737, the lever, when pushed fully fwd, stops there. What's happening with the NGX is that the lever continues to pivot into that thing. The lever is correctly modelled but the rigging is not. The lever is traveling FWD more than it should.

You can see for yourself. Just place the camera next to the speed brake from the side, push it forward, and you'll see it going as if that chunk wasn't there. Shouldn't be hard to fix. It must be a single value in some text file.


t8jsbAr.jpg

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The lever is correctly modelled but the rigging is not.

 

Please put this in a trouble ticket at PMDG Product Support...., this is the only way to ensure that someone looks at it and if validated it gets put into the bug tracking system. There will be a lot of forum posts between now and when PMDG assigns resources to a NGX update so be sure to document it as suggested.

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I sent a ticket already. Here's a better depiction of the problem.

vIutGIN.gif

  • Upvote 1

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He's quite correct - even without rift, and using something like EZCA or Opus - for preset views, you have to create quite a strange view and position to be able to see the CDU without the SpeedBrake lever obscuring things.

 

And as is animation shows its corrupt in that its passing through solid metal.

 

Its a shame the concept of the Operations centre, which was supposed to enable a more simpler update for small fixes hasn't really taken hold - and we still tend to have major release updates with full installs when and if PMDG look at a revision - as the OP says its probably a very simple few values in a file somewhere that changes the amount of movement.

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Its a shame the concept of the Operations centre, which was supposed to enable a more simpler update for small fixes hasn't really taken hold

 

...yet.

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