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ErichB

So I bought Xplane 10...

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It's not a matter of "one or the other", it's more a matter of what mood I'm in today. For P3D new payware products are being released almost daily, for XP10 it's much longer (weeks or even months, or in the case of IXEG 737 six years), so I tend to spend more time in P3D.  No good or bad here, just what it is ... it's all good.

Well said Rob

I have only ever used XP because I was simming on a Mac up until last year, but I would be interested to try P3D if I could afford it. They both have their pluses and minuses: P3D's weather with the likes of ASN and REX is stunning, and XP's night lighting is almost spot on. It just depends on what you're looking for in a simulator. But in the end, all we want to do is fly and have some time with other people who don't think we're crazy for sitting in front of a computer flying a virtual plane for a few hours :lol: . Does it really matter if we use FSX, XP, or a cardboard box?

 

 

what I don't like about XP10 is the manual managing of the scenery_packs.ini (i.e. this process)... if someone has a better way of dealing with this file please let me know.

Check this out

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Check this out

 

Thank you, I will check that out ... less work, more fly is always a good thing.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I don't want to start a debate I really don't, but it disturbs me when people say this. I was an fsx user for many years and I noticed immediately when I first flew in xplane that the flight dynamics are a lot better and realistic. Its noticeable on takeoff, in flight and specially when landing, which in fsx requires little effort compared to x plane.

 

I would like to encourage you to give xplane another shot. Set up your controls properly, disable aircraft stability under controls and get used of the very sensitive trim, which I hate by the way, but no sim is perfect.

 

Regards

Just so you know, I haven't discarded X-Plane. Used the demo's since it was invented around 1994, and own versions 8, 9, & 10.  My favorite higher performance GA airplanes for MSFS, has been RealAir. I like some of the A2A's also. As for X-Plane, I have quite a number of payware aircraft including recent releases.  It's just that I've flown quite a number of real life planes, including a lot of Pipers, Cessna's, the Marchetti SF260, Pitt's, Van's RV's, backseat of a P-51 (just a passenger), Maule,  Stearman, aerobatic gliders, and more. In all these years, I never once thought "wow, X-Plane is so much more realistic, when it comes to flight models".

 

I've read a lot of reasons why people think that's so................. most are wrong, except for helicopters. Initially, it was because X-Plane was more fluid on our older computers. Some think that the air is always moving the plane fore & aft, up & down, and side to side. Until recently, many thought that the exaggerated torque of X-Plane, that was always causing a left roll, was real.  

 

To me, I don't find X-Plane takeoffs or landings to be any more real, than what's available for FSX / P3D, if we're talking good payware, from programmers who have been in the business for a long time. In fact, when it comes to landings, there are FSX models that are near perfect, when it comes to power to weight management, cross winds, the flare, etc. I'd never give up FSX for X-Plane only. Unless something drastic happens. I'll just continue to use both. I setup a high performance system a year and a half ago, with the intention of running both sims. They can both be exceptionally fluid these days, with high frame rates.  Each sim has their own specialties, that the other doesn't offer. 

 

P.S. --- sure do like those Mr. X airports for X-Plane. And the mountains too, as I was a real life mountain type pilot. X-plane is great for mountain & desert scenery.

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Finally decided to give XP10 a go, even if just to experience the night lighting.

 

Are there any 'must have' addons for Xplane as there are for P3D (eg, REX, Orbx type enhancements) which I should consider?  

 

One thing Iiked very much was how easy it was to configure the controls and assign buttons.  Haven't actually done any flying yet.  Before I launch into any addon scenery, I think I'll try the Airfoil labs (?) 172 and the IXEG to get a feel for both GA and tubes.  My biggest fear is that I won't wont to go back to P3D after flying GA in XP.  I'm really keen to see how this pans out.

1. I would recommend heading over to http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads

2. Give xplane a real Go. Not just  5 min. I promise it will grow on you.

3. Don't listen to the people who run XP down. They most certainly have not taken the time to really try it. 

4. Don't expect it to be FSX. Its not. Its better :)

5. follow steps 1-4 and I am certain in a month you will say XP is awesome!

  • Upvote 2

Pete Richards

Aussie born, Sydney ( YSSY ) living in Whitehorse, Yukon ( CYXY )

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Just so you know, I haven't discarded X-Plane. Used the demo's since it was invented around 1994, and own versions 8, 9, & 10.  My favorite higher performance GA airplanes for MSFS, has been RealAir. I like some of the A2A's also. As for X-Plane, I have quite a number of payware aircraft including recent releases.  It's just that I've flown quite a number of real life planes, including a lot of Pipers, Cessna's, the Marchetti SF260, Pitt's, Van's RV's, backseat of a P-51 (just a passenger), Maule,  Stearman, aerobatic gliders, and more. In all these years, I never once thought "wow, X-Plane is so much more realistic, when it comes to flight models".

 

I've read a lot of reasons why people think that's so................. most are wrong, except for helicopters. Initially, it was because X-Plane was more fluid on our older computers. Some think that the air is always moving the plane fore & aft, up & down, and side to side. Until recently, many thought that the exaggerated torque of X-Plane, that was always causing a left roll, was real.  

 

To me, I don't find X-Plane takeoffs or landings to be any more real, than what's available for FSX / P3D, if we're talking good payware, from programmers who have been in the business for a long time. In fact, when it comes to landings, there are FSX models that are near perfect, when it comes to power to weight management, cross winds, the flare, etc. I'd never give up FSX for X-Plane only. Unless something drastic happens. I'll just continue to use both. I setup a high performance system a year and a half ago, with the intention of running both sims. They can both be exceptionally fluid these days, with high frame rates.  Each sim has their own specialties, that the other doesn't offer. 

 

P.S. --- sure do like those Mr. X airports for X-Plane. And the mountains too, as I was a real life mountain type pilot. X-plane is great for mountain & desert scenery.

 

LaDamson, you will be rolling in your grave a 100 years from now when simmers talk about flying on rails ! lol.....I have hundreds of hours flying Cessna models ! And Xplane just feels more fluid then PD3/FSX.

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AMD Ryzen 7 1800x, 1080GTX, Ram - 32GB, 32" 4K Monitor, WIN 10, XP-11 !

Eric Escobar

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I still think that flying in FSX/P3D does feels like flying on rails and more so in FSX.

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Carlos Franklin

Sims: XPlane

Asus Sabertooth z77 - i7 3770k @ 4.6 HT WC - 32gb Corsair @ 2133 (XMP) - Asus GTX 1070 - 250 Evo Pro SSD for Win10 Pro - 500 Evo Pro SSD for XP11

 

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I still think that flying in FSX/P3D does feels like flying on rails and more so in FSX.

What does flying on rails feel like?  Keep in mind, that real flight, even in a fast GA, can seem like you're almost sitting still, while the earth rolls by underneath. Actually, a smoother sensation that a train traveling over welded rails.  Then of course, there is turbulence, in varying amounts, some of the time. To me, the rails thing has always been someone's imagination, of what they think flight feels like. There was once a suggestion of a giant hand, swooping down, and lifting the plane up. It's not like that, the earth just drops away, unless the yoke/stick is pulled hard enough, to feel some pain in the stomach. 

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I recently picked up an old USAF flight training manual (I collect such things) that went into great detail about the sensations of flight, and what you feel in your 'gut and your butt' during various flight maneuvers ranging from coordinated and uncoordinated turns, all the way to advanced flying. Basically breaking down the pressures exerted by positive and negative G-forces on your body in certain situations.

 

It got me thinking about how, of course, we experience none of that while flying our desktops. :wink:


Jim Stewart

Platforms: X-Plane 11 | P3Dv4 | DCS
System: i7-6700K o/c @ 4.4GHz | EVGA GTX 980ti | 32GB RAM | BenQ 32" @ 2560x1440 | Oculus Rift | W10 Pro

Other Sim Interests: Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, Dirt Rally, Euro Truck Simulator 2, American Truck Simulator

 

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On rails ? Or not on rails....

 

Do you bounce around when crossing the swimming pool, underwater ?

 

What about in the beach, on a wavy day ?

 

In X-Plane, FSX/ P3D, DCS, IL-2 BoS, ELITE, PSX, FG.... it can be bouncy or on-rails, for comparable high quality aircraft. It all depends mostly on weather being injected in the sim.

 

Is there turbulence, shear, up / down drafts ?  It'll be bouncy and a well designed aircraft model helps making the experience even better, and a good weather injector or the flight sim weather engine itself, will help too. Is the air stable, and smooth as silk - it'll be on-rails.

 

Same experience on my glider IRL :-)  Either bouncy or on-rails...

 

Ground handling / physics can in my opinion sometimes much more of a difference between sims, and create a closer, or not that much, sensation of being there than "on-railness" of the flight...

 

For extreme / significant weather, like the experience of flying near convective clouds, turbulent layers, around mountains, etc... the weather modelling can play a BIG role on our experience. There lays IMO one of the most remarkable ways of comparing flight simulators.

 

I prefer the way Xplane models turbulence near or inside of convective clouds, but there being no up/down draft consistently modelled in X-Plane's weather engine, I prefer the way ASN injects them and the resulting ride I get in FSX...

 

For an even better experience I choose Aerowinx PSX - wow ! what a ride it can give us on a landing under gusting winds, or near Cbs.... but then, those out'-of-windshield views are soooooo limited :-(

 

And DCS World, with the most remarkable, and certainly more fine tuned flight dynamics for each of it's modules, where unfortunately the weather effects are soooo tame... And that vivid when manually enabled , but most lacking turbulence in ELITE ?.... 

 

There are choices, none brings me all I want, and can sometimes find in the other sim ...

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Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

 

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I use XP10. Like XP10. It's getting most of my time right now.

But as a real pilot, it's way overrated in terms of flight dynamics and the brigade of people who run to tell you otherwise are annoying as hell. The ground handling is just awful. You can have a 5 knot quartering head wind while taxing and the plane will pull left like you've got full takeoff power in. Because of the weather engine limitations, reactions to wind are hit or miss. I find the planes move too much down low, even in what should be generally smooth air, while on a hot day with Cumulus everywhere, things are on rails above 4k feet or so. And although some will swear XP10 simulates ground effect perfectly, the Bonanaza (Carenado) I've been flying wants to sink like a lead truck through a normal round out into flare.
 

All the prop planes I fly in XP10 have what would be called a "heavy wing" in real life, where the left wing constantly wants to dip slightly. This is usually due to rigging issues on a real plane but in the sim I suspect it's due to unrealistic torque effects.

 

I say all that not to discourage you. I use XP10 and really like it. But know it has flaws in the flight dynamics. Not any worse then what exists in P3D. But not necessarily any better either.

 

With all that said, please understand that the above complaints are my individual impressions of individual issues. As a complete package, XP10 feels fine flying (except for the ground handling). So don't think I'm telling you it's terrible and it's gonna feel like crap. It's not. It's a good simulator.

 

P.S. The whole "flying on rails " charge gets on my nerves for two reasons. #1, P3D (at least with ASN or a good weather engine) has the plane moving around just as much if that's your measure. #2 Planes do fly on rails depending on the conditions and it's actually pretty common. I took off at 8pm the other night in a Cherokee 140 and it was like glass after rotation. I was flying an M20J to Nashville Thursday and it was baby smooth above the deck. That's not unrealistic.

 

Where XP10's landings may feel better is that it simulates dutch roll and that is something you commonly get in real life. Usually when going over trees on final. Things almost always settle down once you are 40-50 above the runway, but if you've never experienced it, it can be unnerving. You just have to hold your rudder steady and ride through it.
 

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Great comment Bonchie.

 

Regarding the "on rails" issue, I agree with you completely. I personally think that FSX together with ASN flies beautifully.

 

I remember one time flying an approach on the PMDG 777, I was gliding at -800 fpm. Suddenly, without any input on my behalf, the VSI rolled all the way to -200 and I floated away from the glideslope. That got me convinced that ASN simulates updrafts, got me really impressed I must say.


Jaime Beneyto

 

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ASN does simulate great up/down drafts, a limitation in X-plane 10 weather engine that, other than thermals and slope winds, does not have it at all...


Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

 

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To give a positive to XP, P3Ds hard edge autogen limit is gonna bug you from now on. It's so visible compared to how XP fades things in.

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"Great comment Bonchie". --- I second the notion from the previous post. 

 

As I've often said, my wife and I used a few terms on our flights. A FSX day ( smooth), or X-Plane day for turbulence. She'd often mention, that it seemed like we weren't even moving. Yet we're doing around 200 mph across the ground. It was just simply smooth as can be, in calm air. The ground just drifted by, about 4000' to 6000' below.   These would usually be morning flights, or later in the afternoon.  With mid day, especially in the warmer weather, it would get bouncy.  Note: FSX does default to calm weather. 

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Strangely features that really make the distinction between the two platforms are seldom mentioned... Just a few here:

 

- rotary wing ( all sorts of ) simulation, so well done in X-Plane, as oposed to MSFS and derivates;

- multiple forms of thrust, again much more deeply simulated in X-Plane;

- complex aircraft control systems, allowing even for those who just want to use Plane-Maker, for the creation of some remarkable aircraft. A Bf109-G2 that I recently purchased is an excellent example of how even using only default design techniques, and with access to detailed aircraft design data, an aircraft model can be brought so close to the RW specs and what a simmer can be made to believe would be the feel of flying the real thing. Not behind my experience with DCS's K4, specially as the author keeps working to update the model with new features and fine tunin it's flight dynamics;

- turboprop simulation ( default, not plugin or gauge based ) much closer to reality in X-Plane;

- Even the simple prop braking effect, when in a CS the Prop lever is advanced, specially in landing configuration... much better in X-Plane, again without having to create plugins or gauges ( in msfs )...

- The slopped runways / taxiways, that in a good quality mesh can really make a difference in X-Plane;

- Hail and it's nasty effects;

 

and for me an overall smoother ride, both of flight ( no stutters even at lower frame rates ) and gauge ( clockwork ) depiction, that can probably be the reason why some users say "flight feels more realistic" in X-Plane.

 

Sometimes I start FSX to be able to use there my best MSFS add-ons ever, such as the PMDG NGX, 777, the RealAir Duke and Legacy, the A2A P51d, C172, C182 and Comanche, but after a session in X-plane 10, even ORBX FTX Global in FSX:SE makes it feel... cardboard - the only exception being the skies, so beautifully done, visually and in some effects, by Active Sky...

 

With the recent releases, such as Airfoillabs C172, the iXEG 737, and even my old An-24, Mitsubishi MU-2J and many, many freeware scenery and aircraft, X-plane 10 is my goto sim, even if simply to fly Aerowinx PSX 744 with World visuals, and being able to do it in my old i5, single monitor, without stutters - super smooth!

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Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

 

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