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Heimi

Good for newbies ?

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Hi all,

 

so DTG said that it is aimed to beginners of the hobby, or people interested and new to flight sims.

You can say what you want about it like it or not, but here are 3 items that i think would scare off the "target audience"

 

1.

For me the biggest bummer was not being able to setup my controls to get it flying.

I`m not a beginner but i didn`t found the "axes" dropdown and i was overwhelmed after years of FSX absence  by the magnitude of controls... hundreds... and you need maybe 10-20? Some events aren`t even simulated.

So i needed 30 minutes to figure that out, and went flying. Then anoter 20 minutes to fine tune and some extra assignments and to elminate interfering commands that were auto-binded.

Not really good for an introduction into flight simming.

 

2.

The next stumbling block: I gave it to my wife without comments to do the lessons. She didn`t understand half of the tasks she was adviced to do by the virtual teacher. Without previous knowledge of the Instruments and their reading she had no fun in the beginning.

 

3.

My wife and a friend said: Ugly graphics except for the plane, this is a new game?

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Unfortunately, I have to agree. I had the same issue with the controls axis (but it only took me 20 minutes to detect the "axis" entry using those "scrollbars", a YouTube video was of help). BTW, I use "Saitek Cessna Pro Flight Yoke" and so on. That's too long for the boxes, thus I have three "Saitek Cessna Pro Flight" entries. Did anyone ever test this? BTW, nearly all axis settings for my Saitek gear were wrong by default, but I got them mostly sorted now.  

 

The graphics is poor, really poor. I just can't imagine this to draw anyone into flight simulation. Not in 2016. Potential newbies will read the Steam rankings and go for FSX being 10 times better, even with the default scenery without FTX Global.

 

The flighplanner is neat and much improved to FSX/P3D. However, I was not yet able to convince the simulator my home base being EDBJ yet, It's alwas left by some default (EDFM... I think).

 

I gave this to my nephew who's a newcomer as a present, I will see his impression tomorrow when he is going to try it. And no, I am not going to bias him.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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+1 on the controls setup. I can set up an FSUIPC controls profile in my sleep, but this had me stumped for a while.

 

Out of the box the first thing that should happen is to play Jordan King's setup video, that got me sorted and it's working beautifully.

 

I had low expectations on graphics to begin with knowing this is based on FSX and DTG has only worked on this for a year or so. Given that I'm overall happy with the graphics except the atmospheric scattering, it's quite overdone. Seems DTG could be doing a better job managing expectations if newbie Steamers are expecting AAA graphics.

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Seems DTG could be doing a better job managing expectations if newbie Steamers are expecting AAA graphics.

 

Well, the state of the art in general gaming graphics has advanced pretty far since FSX was released 10 years ago. And not just for the AAA games. Even inexpensive and free-to-play games these days can look pretty great.

 

That's the environment DTG is releasing this product in on Steam, so I don't think the reactions are surprising even at this low price point. The standards are higher now, as they should be.

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I had my granddaughter try it (she's used FSX a bit before). Here's the 16 year-old newbie DTG wants to reach. Her reaction....."it looks so bad I never want to use it again". And I have to agree. How DTG could release a product with the HDR lighting and haze so screwed up is beyond me. If anyone were to ask me if they should buy it I'd have to say no, not yet. Only time will tell if they are going to fix this.  And, yes, it stutters - IMNSHO. (And don't tell me it's a system/hardware problem - because it's not!).

 

Doug

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The scenery is part of a realistic flight simulation experience. There is no excuse for ten year old graphics in a "next generation" Flight Simulator. If Dovetail don't correct that (and I mean correct it, not tweak it) for their full fat flight simulator, then there is absolutely no reason for the vast majority of existing FSX and P3D users to "upgrade".

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.  And, yes, it stutters - IMNSHO. (And don't tell me it's a system/hardware problem - because it's not!).

 

 

 

maybe not, but your system is way better than mine (650ti) and it was quite smooth and stutter-free for me, in fact that was the main positive i saw when trying it out..  now, i get good fps in stock FSX with default aircraft also, so i can't say i was really impressed by it or anything, but it seems like something to build on for sure. i'd really like to try it with a more complex plane  and weather to see if it still performs well.

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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Really don't get the comments about the controls...

 

How is this different from FSX selectin the different areas, including axis? Did you have to think about for more than 60 seconds..?

 

Seriously people...

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The scenery is part of a realistic flight simulation experience. There is no excuse for ten year old graphics in a "next generation" Flight Simulator. If Dovetail don't correct that (and I mean correct it, not tweak it) for their full fat flight simulator, then there is absolutely no reason for the vast majority of existing FSX and P3D users to "upgrade".

 

if i can get a significant bump in fps with the same scenery and planes i have in FSX i'd see that as a decent reason to 'upgrade.' 

 

obviously i'd prefer a stronger improvement but i'll take what i can get. it's not like there's a lot of other options either, P3D, xplane and aerofly all have their various drawbacks as well.

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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The scenery is part of a realistic flight simulation experience. There is no excuse for ten year old graphics in a "next generation" Flight Simulator. If Dovetail don't correct that (and I mean correct it, not tweak it) for their full fat flight simulator, then there is absolutely no reason for the vast majority of existing FSX and P3D users to "upgrade".

Not sure where you got the idea that anyone wants you to think of this as an "upgrade"....

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If it isn't an upgrade to existing simulators, what is the point?

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Well, the state of the art in general gaming graphics has advanced pretty far since FSX was released 10 years ago. And not just for the AAA games. Even inexpensive and free-to-play games these days can look pretty great.
 
That's the environment DTG is releasing this product in on Steam, so I don't think the reactions are surprising even at this low price point. The standards are higher now, as they should be.

 

That's a fair argument and that's why I think DTG should have been managing expectations with the Steam community pretty aggressively on the graphics side of things. Point out it's an old code base and their focus has been on rebuilding the base tech like 64-bit, DX11, UI etc and in creating a training experience for developing aviator skills, and that improved graphics will come later.

 

There's also been a lot of unrealistic expectation in the flightsim community fabricated out of vague marketing-speak. That's a little unfair to DTG and I'd expect such a technically savvy crowd to know better, but in any case that's on DTG to manage as well, especially with the upcoming flight sim.

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Really don't get the comments about the controls...

How is this different from FSX selectin the different areas, including axis? Did you have to think about for more than 60 seconds..?

Seriously people...

 

The UI issues are pretty well explained.

 

The issues is not about not understanding how to assign axes, it's about bits of the UI being hidden and no visual indication the drop-down lists are scrollable.

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I guess that flying in lousy-looking surroundings either in a sim or in RL just isn't my thing - or my granddaughter's. As my daddy told me when I was just a little boy..."life's too short to dance with ugly women".  (Refers to post #6)

 

Doug

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There's also been a lot of unrealistic expectation in the flightsim community fabricated out of vague marketing-speak.

 

The issues is not about not understanding how to assign axes, it's about bits of the UI being hidden and no visual indication the drop-down lists are scrollable.

 

 

Spot-on!

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Hi all,

 

so DTG said that it is aimed to beginners of the hobby, or people interested and new to flight sims.

You can say what you want about it like it or not, but here are 3 items that i think would scare off the "target audience"

 

1.

For me the biggest bummer was not being able to setup my controls to get it flying.

I`m not a beginner but i didn`t found the "axes" dropdown and i was overwhelmed after years of FSX absence  by the magnitude of controls... hundreds... and you need maybe 10-20? Some events aren`t even simulated.

So i needed 30 minutes to figure that out, and went flying. Then anoter 20 minutes to fine tune and some extra assignments and to elminate interfering commands that were auto-binded.

Not really good for an introduction into flight simming.

 

2.

The next stumbling block: I gave it to my wife without comments to do the lessons. She didn`t understand half of the tasks she was adviced to do by the virtual teacher. Without previous knowledge of the Instruments and their reading she had no fun in the beginning.

 

3.

My wife and a friend said: Ugly graphics except for the plane, this is a new game?

 

About #2, I definitely agree. The lessons require quite a bit of previous knowledge and assume you can read the basic flight instruments already. The virtual instructor also assumes a lot of prior knowledge, and you need additional flying skills to anticipate

the glitches and plain lies he tells.

For a game called flight "school", the lessons seem rushed and poorly thought out, and there aren't enough of them. Flight Unlimited II had excellent lessons in 1997, why is this so hard today?

 

 

#3: Again, agreed. It still looks like FSX from 2006. Casual "gamers" will expect much better (GTA 5).

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Really don't get the comments about the controls...

 

How is this different from FSX selectin the different areas, including axis? Did you have to think about for more than 60 seconds..?

 

I am sorry, but it is. 1st, I have the "Saitek Cessna Pro Pilot" Yoke, Pedals and TrimWheel. These entries are too long to fit into the boxes, thus they're cut and I've just got three identical entries "Saitek Cessna Pro Pilot". Funny, isn't it? 2nd, the first drop-down menu ("Calibrations") has sort of a scrollbar, but it took me a Jordan King video to recognize this (tiny) scrollbar to get to the "Axis" entry. User reports show I am not alone. 3rd, nearly all default entries for my Saitek gear were plainly wrong, I don't recall any other simulator getting the default entries for my controls so wrong as FlightSchool did. 

 

I think I know the controls interfaces of all present simulators (including AeroflyFS2 and X-Plane, which some find "difficult", which I wouldn't agree to). In my eyes, FlightSchool has the best looking, but worst working controls interface. I doubt the typical newbe would be more clever in handling my issues.

 

I don't speak about other UI glitches and the graphics yet.

 

Kind regards. Michael

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I am sorry, but it is. 1st, I have the "Saitek Cessna Pro Pilot" Yoke, Pedals and TrimWheel. These entries are too long to fit into the boxes, thus they're cut and I've just got three identical entries "Saitek Cessna Pro Pilot".

Because all newbies just happen to have these sort of controls just lying around at home? OK it's good feedback for DTG to change for the flight simulator due towards the end of year assuming you've reported this to them but not really relevant for the target market.

 

 

I doubt the typical newbe would be more clever in handling my issues.

 

I doubt the typical newbie will have much more than a joystick.

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I doubt the typical newbie will have much more than a joystick.
0

 

And some will want to fly with the keyboard only. 

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The flighplanner is neat and much improved to FSX/P3D.

I disagree with this. The flight planner is actually extremely limited compared with the FSX/P3D one. The map visuals are quite nice, sure, and it's certainly easy to select a departure point and destination, but beyond that there is no way to select what gate you start at (you just start on the end of a runway, end of story), no navlog generated (so how are you supposed to do any VOR navigation if you can't look up the beacon frequency on your navlog?), no way to choose between VFR or IFR flights (I guess the game is mainly geared to VFR flying though) or anything of that sort.

 

So some prettier graphics and simpler interface notwithstanding, overall the flight planner is a major step backwards IMO.

 

That aside, I don't think the game is as friendly to newbies as it could be. For example, the lesson on VOR navigation has several references to an autopilot. Umm ... WHAT autopilot? Neither of the default aircraft in this game have autopilots! Also, the margins between success and failure in the Approach and Landing lesson in particular are far too fine. I have been failed several times in that lesson for being "too slow" on my final approach, yet I was only FRACTIONALLY below 55 mph (probably doing 51 or 52), and after getting the "Nope, we're too slow" message, the instructor then said "Right on speed and glideslope. Nice." But by then it was too late, because I'd already been deemed to have failed the mission. I find that quite utterly ridiculous and unfair. The instructor should warn you if your speed is wrong, not give you an instant fail. And the tolerance margins need to be increased a little.

 

Another bugbear of mine is the ATC and pilot voices in free flight. They sound like robots! Or like third-rate pop singers with autotune. Game for newbies or not, it's completely unacceptable for ATC and pilots to have voices as bad as that. (The voices in the lessons and missions are fine - the problem is with the ATC interaction during free flights.)

 

I think the basic concept of the game is good, and the Orbx scenery naturally looks fantastic. But it has a number of bugs and design flaws that really need to be ironed out. I actually think the FSX lessons (well, some of them) are better for newbies than this game at the moment.

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