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virtualflying

Flight vs. Callsign, what's the difference?

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Basically, I put in DAL for the Flight, and it "GRG L" for the Callsign.

 

It also spaces DAL very weird, as you can see here.

 

My question(s) are first, what is the difference with Flight and Callsign, and second, why is it putting the "GRG L" in the callsign?

 

Regards,

Grant

 

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flight number for passengers, ground handling etc. callsign for ATC

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flight number for passengers, ground handling etc. callsign for ATC

 

So in the Flight box, I would put something like "DA 1256" and in the Callsign I would put "DAL 1256"?

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I can't explain why PFPX is formatting it like that, I am assuming you are typing in DAL for Delta Airlines.

 

The difference between the flight number and the callsign is that the flight number is what is used for scheduling and what passengers will know the flight as. The callsign is simply what the cockpit crew identifies as when they are talking to ATC. It doesn't seem to be very common in the U.S. but in Europe (UK especially) the flight number and callsigns are often different. For example, the British Airways flight that operates from London Gatwick (EGKK) to Tampa, FL (KTPA) is BA2167 however the callsign is BAW60T (although it might change). In the US we seem to stick with the same flight number and callsign so you don't see it too often.

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I am assuming you are typing in DAL for Delta Airlines.

 

You are correct sir!

 

Thank you all, makes much more sense!

 

Cheers!

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Just to add...

 

 

 


in Europe (UK especially) the flight number and callsigns are often different. For example, the British Airways flight that operates from London Gatwick (EGKK) to Tampa, FL (KTPA) is BA2167 however the callsign is BAW60T (although it might change)

 

The main reason for this is to avoid callsign confusion. I seem to recall that there is a computer in Eurocontrol somewhere which analyses the proposed callsigns and flags up if there is likely to be a clash between flights with similar callsigns operating at the same time in the same sectors (e.g. BAW123 vs AFR123, BAW123 vs BAW213, BAW123 vs BWA123 etc -- the potential for confusion should be obvious if those were on the same frequency at the same time). If necessary, the callsigns are then changed (which is why you end up with the alphanumeric callsigns like BAW12AB). Eurocontrol also recommend that no more than three digits are used for all-numeric callsigns, which is another issue for the particular flight mentioned!

 

Operators may use data from crew reports of callsign confusion problems to change callsigns as well.

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So in the Flight box, I would put something like "DA 1256" and in the Callsign I would put "DAL 1256"?

well at work we have for example a flight number which would be BE6770 and a callsign which, in this case, would be LOG84JN.

 

we just use the flight number when talking to ground handling and pax, callsign for ATC. i think you are correct yes, not sure the exact formatting for that airline.

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Your first mistake is using the wrong code. Delta is DL not DA.

 

Enter DL 1234 and it will populate the callsign with DAL 1234

 

If you use airlines that have a different callsign from the flight number like with alpha numeric entries you can enter that after writing in the flight section.

 

Some airlines have duplicate airline codes, and what I do is go into the pfpx database in the options and remove the duplicates so it populates the right callsign when I enter the IATA code in the first flight box.

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The main reason for this is to avoid callsign confusion. I seem to recall that there is a computer in Eurocontrol somewhere which analyses the proposed callsigns and flags up if there is likely to be a clash between flights with similar callsigns operating at the same time in the same sectors (e.g. BAW123 vs AFR123, BAW123 vs BAW213, BAW123 vs BWA123 etc -- the potential for confusion should be obvious if those were on the same frequency at the same time). If necessary, the callsigns are then changed (which is why you end up with the alphanumeric callsigns like BAW12AB). Eurocontrol also recommend that no more than three digits are used for all-numeric callsigns, which is another issue for the particular flight mentioned!

 

Also, many flights are operated under a variety of different Flight Numbers, one for each of the partners in the group sharing the route. In these groups like "One World" and "Star Alliance" one of the group only actual operates the flight, but it is sold to passengers according to whichever airline they booked with.  And although it usual is, it isn't necessarily the same operator every time, depending on resources, positioning and other assorted factors.

 

You can see this would be no good for unambiguous identification for ATC purposes.

 

Pete

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Also, many flights are operated under a variety of different Flight Numbers, one for each of the partners in the group sharing the route. In these groups like "One World" and "Star Alliance" one of the group only actual operates the flight, but it is sold to passengers according to whichever airline they booked with.  And although it usual is, it isn't necessarily the same operator every time, depending on resources, positioning and other assorted factors.

 

You can see this would be no good for unambiguous identification for ATC purposes.

 

Pete

 

That is also true. I just booked my flight back to the States to visit family over Thanksgiving; I booked through Delta and received Delta flight numbers but I will actually be flying on KLM for both legs of my journey.

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The prefix in the call sign is specific to the carrier and subject to the issues noted above for flight number used for the suffix in the call sign. It's not always readily identifiable unless you're familiar with it. For example, British Airways flight 123 looks like BAW123 on your ticket, but the call sign used to and from ATC is "Speedbird 123," Speedbird being BA's very classy call sign prefix. So call sign denotes what's used in radio communication with ATC. See the link for what's used for flight plans in the computer as opposed to the radio (called telephony in the link) and some detailed explanation. Here's a link to a list of company call signs.

 

One from the past is "Clipper" for Pan Am. Pan Am's once a day around the world flight westbound was "Clipper 1" and "Clipper 2" in the eastbound direction. It was flown at times with more than one aircraft type in the string of flights, and there were times when more than one "Clipper 1" was in the air, though of course at 747 speed or less, not in the same airspace.

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The prefix in the call sign is specific to the carrier and subject to the issues noted above for flight number used for the suffix in the call sign. It's not always readily identifiable unless you're familiar with it. For example, British Airways flight 123 looks like BAW123 on your ticket, but the call sign used to and from ATC is "Speedbird 123," Speedbird being BA's very classy call sign prefix. So call sign denotes what's used in radio communication with ATC. See the link for what's used for flight plans in the computer as opposed to the radio (called telephony in the link) and some detailed explanation. Here's a link to a list of company call signs.

 

One from the past is "Clipper" for Pan Am. Pan Am's once a day around the world flight westbound was "Clipper 1" and "Clipper 2" in the eastbound direction. It was flown at times with more than one aircraft type in the string of flights, and there were times when more than one "Clipper 1" was in the air, though of course at 747 speed or less, not in the same airspace.

No as people have said above, the different flight number and callsign is for code sharing or alpha numeric callsigns used instead of using the set flight number. Each callsign is linked in databases to their IATA and iCAO codes. Speedbird is the known callsign of BA/BAW.

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No as people have said above, the different flight number and callsign is for code sharing or alpha numeric callsigns used instead of using the set flight number. Each callsign is linked in databases to their IATA and iCAO codes. Speedbird is the known callsign of BA/BAW.

What part of the post is "No"? The point of my post is the prefix, and I wrote "subject to the issues noted above for flight number..." The topic of the thread is flight number and call sign. Call signs begin with a prefix (not an alphanumeric) which must be pronounceable in English, as stated in paragraph B of the first link.

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A few years ago at virgin atlantic it was about 2009 from memory (before the alpha numeric callsigns used now) the virgin 6 (vir6) from miami and the vir46 from JFK where due to arrive at heathrow at about the same time. They both got put in the hold at Ockham 1000 feet apart one at 8000 the other at 9000, they told the the one at 8000 to decend but got stepped on, the one at 9000 thought the instruction was for him and started to descend. The tcas went off and kicked in between the vir46 and vir6

 

After that they started using alpha numerics about a month later to stop confusion amongst similar flights.

 

I was working that night, and trust me that caused all sorts of faff when we had a near miss

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