Still using Radar Contact for IFR flying with GA planes, where I usually have no SIDs or STARs (small airports). Big benefit is the easy interface and you can manually change frequencies, runways to depart from etc. which makes it very flexible when using real world flight bags like Foreflight. Of course, it is quite outdated meanwhile, but still working very well.

You'll find that PF3 works perfectly well for all types of a/c GA,Commercial, VFR, IFR ICAO and FAA. And it's not outdated!!!!!

Does Pro/ATC-X have caption output so you can read what's being said?

 

It's a must feature for an old guy like me with limited hearing.

 

 

Yes, there is an option to show the text onscreen, in that green bar at the top of the screen which you also see when you for instance open the door, but 1. in the latest version the text onscreen isn't always exactly the text you'll hear (it usually shows too much info so it isn't all bad  :wink: ) and 2. that green bar is a sort of immersion killer for me, specially since I need it to stay onscreen quite long in order to read everything (you can set how long it stays onscreen and what colors is has and if it is static text or rolling).

 

BUT (BIG BUT!!!) ProATC has an even better option: the inflight menu! Simply press the 6 key and you will get ALL the information you need for the current situation (so not only the initial clearence information as red259 posted)! You will see a.o. the radio frequency to set, squawk code, assigned SID, runway, expected STAR, runway, transition, the altitude to set, etc. and all that changes according to what ATC told you. So whenever you miss something just press 6 and you will see everything you need! Pressing any number again will remove the info from the screen. It is shown in a default P3D style panel, just like the one you see when you check AS weather info (don't know if you have that one but it uses the same menu) so there is no obtrusive annoying big panel (like some other ATC addons have). In fact, during the flight you see no ATC panel onscreen at all, only when you need to contact control (press 1 for a similar menu as the inflight info) or have a request. Acknowledging things or asking Say again is done with the 2 and 3 keys and without any panel onscreen. I really love that. The less junk onscreen, the better.

 

One of the best features of ProATC imho is that a flight is setup in seconds. You click on New flight, enter the departure airport, the destination, click on recalculate route and that's it. No need to figure out anything else like SID, STAR, runway, altitudes, gates, restrictions, nothing! You can also import or copy plans from other sources into ProATC (which works even quicker). Flights are also saved for future use. ProATC will figure out the runway to use, the SID, STAR, frequencies, altitudes, everything at the appropriate time and also (obviously) in real time. If the weather changes, all that info may change too, so ProATC may surprise you at any moment. Very realistic. I really would hate to figure out and set all that myself during the planning of the flight... 

 

As soon as you start a flight in ProATC (which connects it to the sim) you get the option to export the flight for specific aircrafts and for the sim itself. You can let the plan load into the sim itself automatically (great for for instance automatic use with ASN/AS16, which btw ProATC can read during the planning phase) and you can load the plan into (the better) addon planes by (taking the Airbus as an example) typing the ICAO codes into the MCDU just as you would load a company route (this can be done as soon as you have clearance from ATC). 

 

All in all very easy, convenient, realistic, simple, unobtrusive, etc. etc. etc.  :wink:

If the weather changes, all that info may change too, so ProATC may surprise you at any moment. Very realistic. I really would hate to figure out and set all that myself during the planning of the flight..

jeroen

 

there are rarely weather surprises in any atc "add-on" if you read the TAF before departing !

there are rarely weather surprises in any atc "add-on" if you read the TAF before departing !

There are couple of ATC add-one that do not know how to read AIRAC data. In these programs, you as the pilot have to tell the program what STARs are available (and how they should be flown).

 

So before you begin the flight, you check destination METAR and TAF. Then you notice that winds in both are from the east (again for example). So for this flight you only tell the ATC program the arrivals that are available to runway pointing to the east.

 

What if the TAF was wrong and by the time you get to your destination and the winds are now turned 180 degrees. In this case ATC will not be able to give you a STAR because you didn't tell the program that such things exist.

 

This is the very reason why I now only use ATC programs that have support for AIRAC data. Same rule applies for aircraft add-ons.

 

What if the TAF was wrong and by the time you get to your destination and the winds are now turned 180 degrees. In this case ATC will not be able to give you a STAR because you didn't tell the program that such things exist.

 

This is the very reason why I now only use ATC programs that have support for AIRAC data. Same rule applies for aircraft add-ons.

STARS are usually placed at the end of the direction from whence you came. For example it is perfectly normal to arrive at BIG at Heathrow if you are arriving from the South East. You can be given any landing runway from BIG by the real ATC. So your argument is not correct.

In PF3 if you do not want to land at the runway given to you then you ask to land at another.

I have tried most canned ATC products available and even with the limitations of VATSIM (not always full atc) I still prefer the live environment.   I cannot get accustomed to canned products with regards to ATC.  

STARS are usually placed at the end of the direction from whence you came. For example it is perfectly normal to arrive at BIG at Heathrow if you are arriving from the South East. You can be given any landing runway from BIG by the real ATC. So your argument is not correct.

 

You are talking about the STAR entry point and I'm talking about the STAR exit point, so my argument is very valid. 

 

Let's take EFHK as an example. There are multiple STARs beginning from waypoint LAKUT (the following applies for many, if not most airports in Europe).

 

- STARS LAKUT5B and LAKUT5R are only for landing on runways pointing to the heading 040. 

 

- STAR LAKUT5M is only for runway 15.

 

- STARS LAKUT3A and LAKUT3V are only for runways pointing to heading 220.

 

- STAR LAKUT5W is only for runway 33.

 

So as you can see, even though all these STARs start from the same waypoint (LAKUT), they have almost nothing in common between them. They all have different waypoints, different altitude and speed restrictions. Also the the STAR exit points are complete different.

 

If the ATC program doesn't know how to read the AIRAC data, it will not know any of this.

 

---

 

EDIT: EGLL's STARs or not typical at all as they are not named based on STAR entry, but the STAR exit point. Also most of them are "ATC clearance only".

Edited October 24, 20169 yr by Jarkko

You'll find that PF3 works perfectly well for all types of a/c GA,Commercial, VFR, IFR ICAO and FAA. And it's not outdated!!!!!

 

From years in flying in very congested airspace in real life ( South Florida), I find the immersion I get with PF3, is by far  the most realistic of any of the ATC programs I have tried. I also like the fact that ATC is talking to the AI aircraft, rather than just some pre recorded generic background chatter. 

I have tried most canned ATC products available and even with the limitations of VATSIM (not always full atc) I still prefer the live environment.   I cannot get accustomed to canned products with regards to ATC.  

 

I flew Vatsim for years. My impressions in a nutshell:

 

1 Never any controllers when and where I want to fly, so I have to fly where the controllers are.

2. Small airports which I love to fly to and from, you usually wind up on Unicomm talking to yourself. 

3. Controller signs off, before you land, so you end flight on Unicomm. 

 

 

As much as I dislike default ATC, I would rather use that than Vatsim. 

I also like the fact that ATC is talking to the AI aircraft

 

I think that all ATC add-ons do this, don't they?

I flew Vatsim for years. My impressions in a nutshell:

 

1 Never any controllers when and where I want to fly, so I have to fly where the controllers are.

2. Small airports which I love to fly to and from, you usually wind up on Unicomm talking to yourself.

3. Controller signs off, before you land, so you end flight on Unicomm.

 

 

I know what you mean Bob. You and I have had this discussion before.

 

1 - I don't mind so much.

2 - Europe - where I mostly fly has fairly good coverage all over.

3 - That happened to me last week, but for the first time in a year. Usually - even if late at night, the controller will wait until I have landed before logging off - if no-one else is about.

I think that all ATC add-ons do this, don't they?

 

 

In PF3, if I have two AI aircraft  approaching me, at different altitudes and headings, I am told about the traffic with the call letters or flight number of the aircraft, and then the traffic aircraft are told about my aircraft and my heading, distance, and altitude. Don't remember any other ATC program doing that.

Europe seems to have much more ATC coverage...especially on IVAO.  I'd second Bob's points about VATSIM...coverage in the US is too spotty to be of much use for me.

You are talking about the STAR entry point and I'm talking about the STAR exit point, so my argument is very valid. 

 

Absolutely not the case!!! My given example BIG is that last wypt in the STAR. So your argument is absolute nonsense!

Europe seems to have much more ATC coverage...especially on IVAO.  I'd second Bob's points about VATSIM...coverage in the US is too spotty to be of much use for me.

 

Right at this moment, there is one controller in the entire United States, NY Departure. That's it. Useless. http://vattastic.com/