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Decent ATC addon?

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I'll definitely be going for ProATCX. Thanks all who helped with the decision!


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I'll definitely be going for ProATCX. Thanks all who helped with the decision!

 

good choice


I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

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Pro-ATC/X now automatically exports the flight plan, including SIDs, STARs and vectors, into the simulator flight plan or into the liner's FMC at the Clearance..

Including SID and STAR is optional btw: I myself save the flights (the one you load into the sim and/or plane: this is a seperate plan from the one you save in ProATC itself) without them because I like to add the SID and STAR myself into the MCDU at the appropriate time. But it's nice to have options. ;)

 

And btw the plans you can load into the sim or plane are created and saved automatically as soon as you start the flight in ProATC. You can let the 'simplan' load automatically (which is nice because it then will also load automatically in AS16) and you can load plans into a plane as the plane requires: I fly the Aerosoft Airbus and load the plan as a company route into the MCDU using ICAO codes.

I'll definitely be going for ProATCX. Thanks all who helped with the decision!

Good choice indeed. Be prepared for some trial and error in the beginning but once you know how it works, it's very easy. (As is the case with everything you have to learn ;) ). Feel free to ask for help here or on the official forum! (I sure needed some help LOL )

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And btw the plans you can load into the sim or plane are created and saved automatically as soon as you start the flight in ProATC. You can let the 'simplan' load automatically (which is nice because it then will also load automatically in AS16) and you can load plans into a plane as the plane requires: I fly the Aerosoft Airbus and load the plan as a company route into the MCDU using ICAO codes.

 

Yes, but technically it is only at the Clearance that Pro-ATC/X transfers its own flight plan, including SID and/or vectors until the first waypoint, into the sim flight plan.  I can show visually how the flight plan changes on the map of your default navigation system once (precisely after) you're cleared. For example: if you have a sim flight plan loaded, the map will show that flight plan when you switch on avionics. But after you are cleared, you will be shown the flight plan from Pro-ATC/X with SIDs and vectors.

In other words, the flight plan from Pro-ATC/X overrides the sim flight plan at the Clearance. Obviously you can load SIDs and STARS yourself at any time, if you are more comfortable doing so.

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I fly the Turbine Duke or other GA aircraft using the GTN750/650.  I am wondering if Pro-ATC/X would be right for me specifically I am concerned with the NavData.  If the AIRAC cycle of Pro-ATC/X in not in sync with the GTN750 data base, how would that work?

 

If the SIDS and STARS are not current in the GTN750 what happens in Pro-ATC/X?

 

I'm not sure if Pro-ATC/X is right for me as a GA flyer.  I would appreciate it if anyone could provide insight for me on this.


--- Jim Little ---
 

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I fly the Turbine Duke or other GA aircraft using the GTN750/650.  I am wondering if Pro-ATC/X would be right for me specifically I am concerned with the NavData.  If the AIRAC cycle of Pro-ATC/X in not in sync with the GTN750 data base, how would that work?

 

If the SIDS and STARS are not current in the GTN750 what happens in Pro-ATC/X?

 

I'm not sure if Pro-ATC/X is right for me as a GA flyer.  I would appreciate it if anyone could provide insight for me on this.

 

Jim, the Flight1 GTN750 is always separated from the default nav system. Meaning, you have to create and save your flight plans there separately. A nice addition in GTN 1.17 is the ability to import flight plans from outside the GTN and Trainer environment, however please be advised that this requires to convert them with a specific syntax. It is not automatic, in other words.

 

That being said, I am using Pro-ATC/X exclusively with GA aircraft and, unlike the former version (1.7.2.0), with the new one (1.8.5.0) you can now choose even small airports as destination and target. If the airport has no SIDs and STARS, as it is mostly the case with small airports, the ATC will assign you vector points until your first waypoint.

 

Finally, having a different cycle in Pro-ATC/X than in the GTN is more or less usual for all of us. In most cases, this will have no impact to your flight, as waypoints and procedures will often remain identical.

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So creating and importing a flightplan is no fun apparently!

 

Creating a flight plan can be fun when you can import your route in real world format. As far as I know, only ProATC (and maybe Pilot2ATC?) can do this.

 

---

 

Here is an ATC program flight plan challenge:

 

Let's use a simple test case (SID and STAR serving most wind direction, only one airway): http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL128/history/20161026/1658Z/KSEA/KLAX

 

Describe the steps needed to import the flight linked above into your ATC program of choice. NOTE: No external programs allowed, use only the tools available in your ATC program. Also mention what kind of modification are needed for both KSEA and KLAX pretending that you haven't modified these in any way before.

 

---

 

I'll go first with ProATC:

 

1. Choose: Flight Plan > New from copy/paste.

 

2. Enter (the route in the FlightAware link): KSEA SUMMA9 LKV DCT FRA J7 DERBB SADDE7 KLAX

 

3. Select aircraft type.

 

4. Select flight level FL330 (as per the link).

 

5. Click save.

 

That is it. Your (real world) flight plan is now stored and ready to be used any time you like. No need to set transition altitudes, SID/STAR/airway/transition waypoints, safe altitudes and so on. All those things are read from the AIRAC. Also no need for external programs or hand made modifications to the airports.

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On PF3:

 

1. Go to Simbrief and create a flight plan and export it to P3D.

 

2. Run PF3, select the flight plan that I just created and select or create a profile for the aircraft

you are flying.

 

3. Tell PF3 where my along the FP my SID ends and where my STAR starts.

 

4. Tell PF3 of any altitude restriction and/or missed approach altitude.

 

5. Connect to the sim.

 

I do prefer Pro/ATC-x because like Jeroen said, I do less. If I include the SID and STAR as part of the flight plan, when I select "Load into flight plan" it gets erased. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

At the same time I like the fact that you can choose a different RWY along the SID for takeoff. Pretty cool.

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On PF3:

 

1. Go to Simbrief and create a flight plan and export it to P3D.

...

4. Tell PF3 of any altitude restriction and/or missed approach altitude. 

 

Thanks for posting the steps!

 

The first item on the list is the same for VoxATC and Radar Contact, but... the challenge was: "No external programs allowed". SimBrief falls under external programs.

 

For item 4, you will also have to use some program or source for the altitude restrictions and missed approach data. This is why it wouldn't fit the "use only the tools available in your ATC program" criteria.

 

 

I do prefer Pro/ATC-x because like Jeroen said, I do less. If I include the SID and STAR as part of the flight plan, when I select "Load into flight plan" it gets erased. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

At the same time I like the fact that you can choose a different RWY along the SID for takeoff. Pretty cool.

 

You are not doing anything wrong.

 

AFAIK the data gets erased (from the flight plan display version) on purpose because the SID/STAR isn't always available for all runways (especially in Europe). This way the flight plans are re-usable. No need to create runway specific flight plans.

 

Having said that, I do agree, that it would be nice if the entered SID/STAR would not be erased from the flight plan display version, because ATC could always override the flight plan SID/STAR if need be.

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On PF3:

 

1. Go to Simbrief and create a flight plan and export it to P3D.

 

2. Run PF3, select the flight plan that I just created and select or create a profile for the aircraft

you are flying.

 

3. Tell PF3 where my along the FP my SID ends and where my STAR starts.

 

4. Tell PF3 of any altitude restriction and/or missed approach altitude.

 

5. Connect to the sim.

 

I do prefer Pro/ATC-x because like Jeroen said, I do less. If I include the SID and STAR as part of the flight plan, when I select "Load into flight plan" it gets erased. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

At the same time I like the fact that you can choose a different RWY along the SID for takeoff. Pretty cool.

 

In PATC you cannot load a sid and star as part of the flight plan, because the sid and star are assigned by ATC. If you have a sid or star in the flight plan plan, best to delete it before importing  it into P ATC. 

Jim, the Flight1 GTN750 is always separated from the default nav system. Meaning, you have to create and save your flight plans there separately. A nice addition in GTN 1.17 is the ability to import flight plans from outside the GTN and Trainer environment, however please be advised that this requires to convert them with a specific syntax. It is not automatic, in other words.

 

That being said, I am using Pro-ATC/X exclusively with GA aircraft and, unlike the former version (1.7.2.0), with the new one (1.8.5.0) you can now choose even small airports as destination and target. If the airport has no SIDs and STARS, as it is mostly the case with small airports, the ATC will assign you vector points until your first waypoint.

 

Finally, having a different cycle in Pro-ATC/X than in the GTN is more or less usual for all of us. In most cases, this will have no impact to your flight, as waypoints and procedures will often remain identical.

 

 

I use PF3 and the  Flight 1 GTN, and they work together very well. I looked at the instructions for importing a flight plan into the updated GTN, and frankly I can do it much faster by just entering the plan directly into the GTN, especially if you have airways, which I get from Skyvector Flight Plans. I like using Skyvector for small airport navigation, because you can use the low altitude airways  and set up a flight plan in about a minute or two. Some of the flight plan sites like Simbrief are more aimed at tubeliner plans.  This is the method I use with Plan G.  


PF3 Beta Tester

Bob Cardone        P3D 3,4       FlyVirtual.net   Aivlasoft EFB2  /pf3-supporter.gif

 

 

 

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I did the challenge with Pilot2ATC demo.

 

1.  Copy and pasted the flightplan into the FP import window

2.  Had to add the SID manually

3.  Had to add the STAR manually

4.  Set cruise altitude.

 

Next to see how it does now that it's in.

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Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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I own VoxATC, PF3 and Pro/ATC-X and each one has it's + and -.   If only I could merge it all!

 

VoxATC - To me, this one is king.  It is unfortunate that it is broken in P3D.   Beta 7 has a long way to go before it is ready to go so it's just not usable on my system.   AI traffic won't spawn in properly, controllers tend to die during flight and never come back and the ATC is then destroyed and I have to revert to Default ATC.   I miss doing Voice Comms.  It increases immersion greater than any of the others.   Wish development was slower than a rock sitting on flat terrain.  I want my VoxATC back!  T_T

 

PF3 - Just started using this one because I really liked the audio quality.   It is a little bit extra to setup a flight and go but it's no different than what a real pilot does with his crew in the briefing room; going over the flight plan, checking restrictions, etc, etc. so I don't mind it.   The Audio CANNOT be beat in PF3.   It is better than VoxATC (even with AT&T/Ivona TTS packs) and way better than Pro/ATC-X.  The radio static, mic clicks and the authentic sounding ATIS system sold me.   It is fairly robust but I have to kick some points away from it because it doesn't truly control any traffic but YOU.   It has some tricks it does to make you THINK it's landing and departing AI craft and taxing them around but it is not which is a bummer.   Some of the phraseology irks the crap out of me too.   The DEV needs to evaluate the language used, especially here in the United States.    It would be 1000x better if it could read and process Navigraph data like VoxATC and Pro/ATC-X can.  This would alleviate a huge amount of manual data entry.   The in-flight chatter sounds amazing with a lot of AI craft running around.   Right now, this one is my GO to ATC program.

 

Pro/ATC-X - I am torn between which I like better between PF3 and Pro/ATC-X.   Pro/ATC-X has a nice planning system and flight tracker and tons of useful EFB style info that it feeds you while in flight.  The sounds make me cringe though... it sounds like I am in a world full of evil robots that want to slaughter my entire family and eat our medicine for fuel.    It's more of that choppy .wav hack job voice work that drives me personally nuts too.  I hate that.  It's why I passed on other ATC programs.    PF3 sounds much more authentic in this regards.  VoxATC, with good TTS voice, is flawless as it's TTS but that is very expensive to get a good set of TTS voices that sound real.   Pro/ATC-X seems to handle the STAR arrivals better than PF3.    PF3 has a great weakness to way points being too close to the approach area.  Most STARS do have a series of waypoints toward the end of the star that are between 6-4 miles apart and near the airport.   PF3 does NOT like this.   You'll end up getting handed off to CENTER and vectored out further and brought back around for landing.  This is highly unrealistic.   Pro/ATC-X for the most part nails the SID/STAR departures and approaches.    Gate to Gate service is nice.

 

If Pro/ATC-X had PF3's audio system it would be no contest.  Pro/ATC-X would run all of my flights.   If VoxATC 7.0 can get its act together I would love to return to voice control.  VoxATC just FEELS right and does a great job controlling AI ground traffic.   Ugh...  its the way of the SIM biz... everything has something but not everything you ever want.... 

  • Upvote 5

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Brian Navy

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Nice comparison. Pretty much sums up my own experience.

 

Regarding PF3:

To get around your issues with STAR waypoints to close to the airport you should not include the STAR waypoints in the flightplan loaded into PF3. Let the STAR entry be your last waypoint. Tick the STAR option in PF3 and PF3 will let you fly your STAR without vectoring you.

 

And are you aware that you can easily control PF3 via voice as well? Take a look here: http://www.avsim.com/topic/496866-good-atc-program-possibly-with-voice-activation-flyinsidefsx-vr/

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Yes, but technically it is only at the Clearance that Pro-ATC/X transfers its own flight plan, including SID and/or vectors until the first waypoint, into the sim flight plan.

 

Ah, ok, I didn't know that ProATC does load its sim plan into the sim WITH SID etc. I did know (obviously) it creates the plan after clearance (which is the time I can load it into the Airbus as a company route). I have to say I never look at or use the sim plan because I only auto-load it so AS16 can auto-load it too and I can use AS16's inflight information. I only actually work with the plan that I can load into the Airbus for which I chose to not have it included SID and STAR.

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If VoxATC 7.0 can get its act together I would love to return to voice control.

 

 

Brian, I loaded up the demo of Pilot2ATC a couple days ago.  So far I'm liking it better than Vox.  Recognizes my voice pretty well...kinda feels real talking ATC instead of clicking.  I'd try ProATC/X if it had a demo too.  Hearing a lot of good things but kinda nervous about getting it without trying it.


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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