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Will LM Abandon P3D/MS ESP Development?

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

I was just thinking that also. Oh boy those programmers and engineers at LM who are working with P3D got to have a thick skin and a good self-confidence. Because no matter how well they are doing their job, customers are NEVER happy  :smile:  :fool: . Huh! What a place to do your job... I got no other complains but the clouds, should that to be fixed, P3D would be perfect.

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

 

Abandoning an existing software engine/platform in favour of another is of course always a possibility. But is is a huge undertaking that you would only decide to do if the existing platform has become so constraining and time-consuming to fix and build upon, that it would take less time and money to scrap it and replace it with another platform. In the case of flight simulators, there aren't a whole lot of other platforms on the market to choose from, so the choice would be more or less "Should we keep working on ESP, or should we bin it and build our own platform from scratch?" And of course the company's financial people would need some pretty convincing arguments to give the go-ahead for building an entirely new platform.

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

 

 

Possibly. But why do you ask? If they stop working on P3D we can keep on using the latest version just like we used FSX for years and years without support. At least things will be a lot better then they were before P3D. (However, if LM also takes the activation servers offline, there could be a problem...  :wink: )

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

I always thought a little surprising that LM would invest in this. I am glad they did but I wouldn't surprised if they'd pull the plug someday or sell it.  The last product iteration would still be with us and I suppose that they would have the legal obligation to keep their activation servers open.

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LM tapped into a large beta testing group (US) when they decided to create P3D. We're not their target customer but we do provide a valuable service. Could they stop development? Absolutely. They'll keep supporting P3D right until the day it's no longer profitable.

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I always thought a little surprising that LM would invest in this. I am glad they did but I wouldn't surprised if they'd pull the plug someday or sell it. The last product iteration would still be with us and I suppose that they would have the legal obligation to keep their activation servers open.

If you find it surprising, then you are misjudging all big corporations' interest in both simulation modeling and automation. It's THE growth industry today. Any company that doesn't have at least one foot dipped in the waters of AI and VR is probably still making horseshoes and mustache wax.

 

Manned military combat is fading away. In its place will be armed forces composed entirely of remotely controlled drone aircraft, ships and vehicles. It's no different than other other industry.

 

LM may eventually stop development of the public version of its flight simulator, but why should they? It's good PR and besides they get paid for it. What a deal! BTW, it's just as likely that Intel will stop making the guts of desktop PCs. Or that Laminar will lose its patent troll lawsuit and go broke. I'm not gonna worry about these things.

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If you find it surprising, then you are misjudging all big corporations' interest in both simulation modeling and automation. It's THE growth industry today. Any company that doesn't have at least one foot dipped in the waters of AI and VR is probably still making horseshoes and mustache wax.

 

Manned military combat is fading away. In its place will be armed forces composed entirely of remotely controlled drone aircraft, ships and vehicles. It's no different than other other industry.

 

LM may eventually stop development of the public version of its flight simulator, but why should they? It's good PR and besides they get paid for it. What a deal! BTW, it's just as likely that Intel will stop making the guts of desktop PCs. Or that Laminar will lose its patent troll lawsuit and go broke. I'm not gonna worry about these things.

 

I was surprised, Jay, you cannot help. It comes like that. You are surprised.

 

LM is, of course, certainly highly keen to be a major player in the simulation/ VR industry for the whole battlefield. Tell me something I don't know :smile: .

 

Why should they work with the ESP is a little mystifying to me though. They have immense intellectual resources available to them, corporate and outside (DARPA, universities etc.), in artificial intelligence, remote flying etc. Maybe the decade old ESP has more potential than I thought ? Maybe it is a piece of a larger puzzle ?

 

Why would they bother with the consumers market also ? Not exactly the profitability profile they are used to and, in the US at least, a source of petty legal nuisances. As for the PR, how many US and Allies Congressmen, MPs, MoDs are simmers ?

 

One last thing, it wouln't be the first time, that a major corporation invests a little money to see and then pull out. I hope not...

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues?

 

No that's not possible.

 

If you are having issues AVSIM has several guides to resolve and/or work around issues.

 

P3D Guide

CTD Guide

Tips and Tricks Forum

How to Update P3D

 

If your issues are with a (or some) 3rd party products then I'd recommend you contact the 3rd party developer(s).

 

Everything else in this thread is entirely conjecture to what end such conjecture might serve I have no idea?  LM's development of P3D continues and as usual NDA's prevent any further information on what will be happening next with P3D.

 

Now if you want to encourage rather than discourage development of P3D and add-ons, then a positive note would be considerably more effective than a repeated negative notes where solutions already exist.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Myself I do not think that LM will abandon P3D 32 bit development.

Somewhere in the future their might be a 64 bit version .

 

Lucky me I do not suffer from OOMs and am enjoying v3.4, like earlier versions, to the fullest.

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Myself I do not think that LM will abandon P3D 32 bit development.

Somewhere in the future their might be a 64 bit version .

 

Lucky me I do not suffer from OOMs and am enjoying v3.4, like earlier versions, to the fullest.

 

Same here :-)

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Jay nailed it.

 

The cost of real world operations for training are exponentially greater than the cost of simulators, and the military and several (numerous) different commercial sectors embraced using simulators many years ago.

 

If one were to develop a new flight simulator as diverse and capable as the ESP family, it would take them years and a ton of money. It's important to remember that FSX was never developed from scratch, it was built on many years of releases of flight simulators by the ACES Team.

 

Anyway, the above why Lockheed Martin used ESP for P3D and why Dovetail Games used it for their upcoming / new flight simulator.  Their changing things, sure! 

 

My very best wishes.

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I don't think LM is going to abandon ESP/ p3d quite yet. It is an old platform engine but with companies like orbx, carenado, Lionheart and others, p3d can look, and feel pretty amazing. I would love to see them adopt a new engine that is not so cpu constrained but it is what it is. Even if they bring dx12 over I still can't see getting his amazing jump in fps, the cpu limits are the problem. Don't quote me though I would love to be pleasantly surprised. Also if we see the abandonment of p3d and we are getting fed up with what we have. Xplane is looking more amazing every release and now with aerofly 2 from ipacs that looks and performs absolutely amazing we do have a little bit of options.

 

PS I strongly recommend an oculus rift if you can afford it. It has changed my simulator experience is the most positive way. If you can look past the lower resolution it is so worth it. I can not fly without it anymore. Aerofly2 also looks phenomenal on the rift.

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What a strange question. It sounds like; will we abandon cars because off all the accidents that occur everyday?

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Is it also possible that somewhere down the line LM get fedup and abandon p3d/MS esp development due to never ending and impossible/too consuming  to fix issues? There must be a limited commitment to how much they want to modify the ESP, else by now they might also have reached an fs11/12isk level of improvement.

May I recommend that you take some time and look at the LM Corp website. Look at the type research they are doing. Most of their future is based on Flight, either airplanes, drones or space Flight. Then there is weather, Army tanks and other delights of future war, Then their is Disaster Management and crowd control. I am sure I am leaving out many, but all these things need simulators for research and training. People just have to understand that LM does not do all this so that you and I can pretend to be 747 pilots. :p0503:

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May I recommend that you take some time and look at the LM Corp website. Look at the type research they are doing. Most of their future is based on Flight, either airplanes, drones or space Flight. Then there is weather, Army tanks and other delights of future war, Then their is Disaster Management and crowd control. I am sure I am leaving out many, but all these things need simulators for research and training. People just have to understand that LM does not do all this so that you and I can pretend to be 747 pilots. :p0503:

 

All career pilots today train on Simulators.   Notice I said "all". 

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What a strange question.

 

 

It's my belief that people usually ask questions based on their current knowledge level, which comes from their exposure and experience with related matters. I'm suire from the OP's perspective, it was a rational, thought provoking question, and I see a number of highly experienced AVSIM personalities respond to respectfully to address the OP's question.

 

I would hope that the wide range of ages and experience here (and often inability to know what they are from a username) should lead us to be more respectful and tolerant. If we don't have something helpful, positive or constructive to say then why move on to the next post? 

 

Anyway, food for thought I suppose.

 

My very best wishes.

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Basically the reactions in the recent thread on the not so formidable latest hotfix led me wondering a bit in this direction. Though some responses here seem to merge LM abandoning ESP with LM abandoning simulation in general, post #8 was roughly the line of thought that occurred to me and there are some good to know points in other posts I came to find in that regard. 

There has been development in 5 years, I cant complain as MSFS had full stopped it. But as a simmer I think though there have been significant changes which have allowed for good flights, too little has changed in too much time, which makes me feel LM is willing to do only so much to the sim. Though I hope to see some major improvement in the future, what looks probable to me is nothing revolutionary might happen. In that case how long before LM stops putting up with all the bugs/issues/limitations that they did not create, is what I was thinking. Food for thought exactly, but apologies if it sounds criticizing or negative. I for one am not much affected by those major issues probably because I do not use FTX and other heavy hitters, and enjoying simming like never before. I do however miss the original MSFS scene and sometimes cant resist dreaming about what future iterations to the present day might have looked and run like. It was sort of an explosion of features and functionality that started to happen perhaps beginning fs2002 that got halted with fsx before it could complete in following iterations. I get reminded of it whenever I hit bugs/quirks in P3D/FSX.

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No that's not possible.

 

If you are having issues AVSIM has several guides to resolve and/or work around issues.

 

P3D Guide

CTD Guide

Tips and Tricks Forum

How to Update P3D

 

If your issues are with a (or some) 3rd party products then I'd recommend you contact the 3rd party developer(s).

 

Everything else in this thread is entirely conjecture to what end such conjecture might serve I have no idea?  LM's development of P3D continues and as usual NDA's prevent any further information on what will be happening next with P3D.

 

Now if you want to encourage rather than discourage development of P3D and add-ons, then a positive note would be considerably more effective than a repeated negative notes where solutions already exist.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I will just re-quote Rob, because he said it all regarding this thread.

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What a strange question. It sounds like; will we abandon cars because off all the accidents that occur everyday?

 

The original post and the first few replies of this thread was originally posted in the P3D 3.4 Experience thread, as a part of the long discussion of issues with the 3.4 version. And perhaps to avoid derailing the original thread, the original posts and replies were moved to their own thread. I agree that this discussion doesn't really have much substance, and I don't mean to be a backseat moderator, but having a thread of its own has perhaps generated more discussion of low substance than would have occured in the original thread. Just my opinion.

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Shall we go back to the current real P3D Flightsim world ?...

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Myself I do not think that LM will abandon P3D 32 bit development.

Somewhere in the future their might be a 64 bit version .

 

Lucky me I do not suffer from OOMs and am enjoying v3.4, like earlier versions, to the fullest.

Nice to hear that not everyone is sitting around wringing their hands and thinking of doom and gloom. Its a bit like golf......quit griping and just hit the freakin' ball. Go fly!

 

Bill W

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Well I don't really see this one going anywhere constructive so it's time to shut it down.

 

 

Vic

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