Jim Young

NTDLL CTD's Fixed in Latest Version of P3D!

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Hopefully this will help others who might experience CTD's with the latest version of P3D.  I had a successful flight from KLAX to KSFO yesterday with the PMDG 737, AS16 weather, ProATC-X, and flying over Orbx/FTX Southern California.  I had disabled Orbx's ObjectFlow for P3D as it still required an update for the latest version of P3D.  Last night though, when opening P3D, I got a message that ObjectFlow had been updated and I allowed the update.  Restarted P3D and no problems when I tried the same scenario from KLAX to KSFO.  However I had to shutdown the sim early as I had AVSIM office work to do and did not try again until today.

 

Today, I loaded the PMDG 737 at KLAX to try the above scenerio again.  The aircraft loaded but it stopped before completely loading KLAX.  I disabled AS16 weather and ProATC-X and tried again.  Still received the crash in the same location.  Looking at my AppCrashView report, it stated the faulting module was the NTDLL.dll.  Since I had just updated the ObjectFlow.dll, I decided to disable that in the dll.xml for P3D.  This time total success and I was able to fly the flight successfully with AS16 and ProATC-X enabled.  So it is a buggy Objectflow.dll for P3D which is the issue.  I'll keep it disabled until I know for certain it has been fixed.

 

Hope this helps others.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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Jim,

 

I've spent a lot of time chasing ntdll.dll CTDs, which is why I posted this thread:

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/497796-an-interesting-comment-regarding-ooms-ntdlldll-ctds-and-headroom/

 

The guy behind FSDT, Umberto Colapicchioni believes that the ntdll.dll CTD is related to VAS becoming fragmented as the sim runs for a certain amount of time. Eventually, the sim tries to allocate a memory block that is larger than the largest contiguous block of the depleted VAS. The sim CTDs even before it can display its OOM dialog box. Most often the error code is related to heap corruption. Thus, the free VAS that is displayed in sim by FSUIPC can be very misleading. I have seen P3d CTD with almost 1 GB of VAS left. Sometimes it can run with only a few hundred MB of VAS free.

 

I have had the same type of immediate ntdll.dll CTD as you describe above by just loading a complex aircraft at the San Jose, CA airport with ORBX SCA loaded. It's a question of way too many addons reducing the VAS headroom to dangerous levels.

 

Jay

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Hi,

 

thanks, did you report this to the ORBX crew?

 

Kind regards, Michael

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The guy behind FSDT, Umberto Colapicchioni believes that the ntdll.dll CTD is related to VAS becoming fragmented as the sim runs for a certain amount of time. Eventually, the sim tries to allocate a memory block that is larger than the largest contiguous block of the depleted VAS.

 

This may be true for long flights but my sim was still loading to the airport when my CTD occurred.  Whenever I have seen an NTDLL.dll as the faulting module, it has mostly been a module located in the dll.xml being corrupted or incompatible (and I have seen a lot of them in the AVSIM CTD Forum).  Although I have the deepest respect for Umberto, I do not believe the ntdll.dll error is related to VAS becoming fragmented.  My virtual address space gains space as I fly depending on the scenario.  For instance, today, I had less than 1GB of VAS at the beginning of the flight but, by the end of the flight I had way over 1GB.  Sometimes I have over 2GB's.  We rarely had these VAS issues when we had the older processors and video cards when Windows 7 was first released.  That is because we were forced to keep our settings low to maintain good FPS.  Now we get great FPS so people rachet up the sim and video card sliders and that requires more VAS and resources.

 

 

 


thanks, did you report this to the ORBX crew?

 

I looked at their forums to see if it had been reported yet but have not had time to post anything there.  I will try to post something tomorrow.  Taking care of AVSIM members first!

 

Best regards,

Jim

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Hmmm...contiguous VAS is an interesting thing.  I wonder if it might be related to virtual memory size.  I have mine set very large on a SSD. 

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Got my first ever crash in P3D V3.4 today. Check of the event log and sure enough its the NTDLL. I only have FTX Global however yesterday I did get an update for ObjectFlow....I wonder if that could be it...

 

I had 1.4GB of VAS free at the time of crash (or at least thats what FSUIPC said)

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Hopefully you will disable it from loading in the dll.xml and see if that fixes the problem.  It did for me.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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Thanks Jim.  What exactly does ObjectFlow do given I don't use ORBX sceneries? I use FTX Global but my understanding is thats just a texture replacement.

 

Or do other developers use Objectflow as well?

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Hopefully this will help others who might experience CTD's with the latest version of P3D.  I had a successful flight from KLAX to KSFO yesterday with the PMDG 737, AS16 weather, ProATC-X, and flying over Orbx/FTX Southern California.  I had disabled Orbx's ObjectFlow for P3D as it still required an update for the latest version of P3D.  Last night though, when opening P3D, I got a message that ObjectFlow had been updated and I allowed the update.  Restarted P3D and no problems when I tried the same scenario from KLAX to KSFO.  However I had to shutdown the sim early as I had AVSIM office work to do and did not try again until today.

 

Today, I loaded the PMDG 737 at KLAX to try the above scenerio again.  The aircraft loaded but it stopped before completely loading KLAX.  I disabled AS16 weather and ProATC-X and tried again.  Still received the crash in the same location.  Looking at my AppCrashView report, it stated the faulting module was the NTDLL.dll.  Since I had just updated the ObjectFlow.dll, I decided to disable that in the dll.xml for P3D.  This time total success and I was able to fly the flight successfully with AS16 and ProATC-X enabled.  So it is a buggy Objectflow.dll for P3D which is the issue.  I'll keep it disabled until I know for certain it has been fixed.

 

Hope this helps others.

 

Best regards,

Jim

 

Hi, could you confirm if this NTDLL.dll crash occurs with the newest P3Dv3.4.14 and not with the previous P3Dv3.4.9?. I was about to make the move to the latest v3.4.14, but since I'm not getting any CTDs, I'm thinking to stay with v3.4.9, at least until this issue is cleared out.

Cheers, Ed

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Eventually, the sim tries to allocate a memory block that is larger than the largest contiguous block of the depleted VAS. The sim CTDs even before it can display its OOM dialog box. Most often the error code is related to heap corruption. Thus, the free VAS that is displayed in sim by FSUIPC can be very misleading. I have seen P3d CTD with almost 1 GB of VAS left.

 

This is a very interesting explanation. I've had this happen too and immediately checked VAS and it was within limits.

 

Thanks for passing this info along, Jay.

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Exactly how do you disable this ?

 

I just got my first crash and sure enough its the NTDLL.dll..

 

P3D 3.4

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Hi, could you confirm if this NTDLL.dll crash occurs with the newest P3Dv3.4.14 and not with the previous P3Dv3.4.9?. I was about to make the move to the latest v3.4.14, but since I'm not getting any CTDs, I'm thinking to stay with v3.4.9, at least until this issue is cleared out.

Cheers, Ed

I can confirm that Ed.  But, anytime P3D is upgraded, certain add-ons have to upgraded too, including the ObjectFlow.dll for P3D.  FSDT and AS16 software required upgrading too.  It's part of the process of fixing bugs and upgrading in software.  I am positive the Orbx ObjectFlow.dll will be made fully compatible with P3D.  It really is not required for Orbx/FTX scenery to work so not a major loss to Orbx/FTX users.  My objective is complete:  to let others know, if they get the NTDLL.dll and they upgraded to the latest version of P3D, it is most likely the ObjectFlow.dll for P3D entry in the dll.xml.  The solution is to disable it until it finally becomes fully compatible.

 

 

This is a very interesting explanation. I've had this happen too and immediately checked VAS and it was within limits.

 

 

Please do not turn this into a VAS topic as my OP has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with an OOM or lack of VAS.

Exactly how do you disable this ?

 

I just got my first crash and sure enough its the NTDLL.dll..

 

P3D 3.4

Open up your dll.xml using notepad (located in the same folder as your P3D scenery.cfg).  Look for the following entry.  Change the line in Bold from False to True:

 

   <Launch.Addon>

    <Name>ObjectFlow</Name>

    <Disabled>False</Disabled>  Change False to True

    <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>

    <Path>K:\Prepar3D_v3\ORBX\FTX_AU\FTXAA_ORBXLIBS\Scenery\ObjectFlow_P3D.dll</Path>

  </Launch.Addon>

 

Save it and go fly.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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I can confirm that Ed. But, anytime P3D is upgraded, certain add-ons have to upgraded too, including the ObjectFlow.dll for P3D. FSDT and AS16 software required upgrading too. It's part of the process of fixing bugs and upgrading in software. I am positive the Orbx ObjectFlow.dll will be made fully compatible with P3D. It really is not required for Orbx/FTX scenery to work so not a major loss to Orbx/FTX users. My objective is complete: to let others know, if they get the NTDLL.dll and they upgraded to the latest version of P3D, it is most likely the ObjectFlow.dll for P3D entry in the dll.xml. The solution is to disable it until it finally becomes fully compatible.

 

Hi, Jim, thanks for the explanation. ORBX released the new ObjectFlow.dll days ago, supposedly compatible with the newest P3Dv3.4.14 and I've updated it when I was asked to do it, upon running P3D. It seems, because of the crashes, that for some reason the update is buggy. Are you going to post this at the ORBX forums? I haven't seen anything related to this at their forums yet.

Cheers, Ed

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I crashed because of this for the first time today and I don't have ORBX... FYI

 

I do have AS2016 and the PMDG737 - 777

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I crashed because of this for the first time today and I don't have ORBX... FYI

 

I do have AS2016 and the PMDG737 - 777

 

Hi, Eric. Which version of P3Dv3.4 are you running?.

Cheers, Ed

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I've also had As16 running when mine crashed. That said I've been using it since release without issue. Only thing to change on my system is the Objextflow update a couple of days ago.

 

Just crashed again for a second time.

 

Will try and disable it.

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Hi, Jim, thanks for the explanation. ORBX released the new ObjectFlow.dll days ago, supposedly compatible with the newest P3Dv3.4.14 and I've updated it when I was asked to do it, upon running P3D. It seems, because of the crashes, that for some reason the update is buggy. Are you going to post this at the ORBX forums? I haven't seen anything related to this at their forums yet.
C

 

I don't have any crashes with my P3D, but I did get 2 different updates for Objectflow when starting P3D, one day apart. Probably the first one was buggy, but it never caused any problems for me. 

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Just confirming that I successfully updated P3D to v3.4.14.18870. I followed the AVSIM Lockheed Martin Prepar3D_Guide, deleted the shader and config file.

1. I successfully upgraded 3 areas of P3D (Client, Content and scenery) as per the guide.

2. I then disabled P3d default traffic, loaded P3D and activated it - let it load and flew a default flight to let the shaders load.

3. I then exited P3D, reinstalled ORBX Global, FSDT Addon Manager and the latest FSUIPC.

4. I checked all the exe and dll entries and had to delete a duplicate entry of "<Name>ObjectFlow_P3D</Name>".

5. I then loaded P3D as per normal and successfully completed a PMDG 777 from Flytampa YSSY to Orbx YMML V3.. No crashes or anything..

 

Am happy to report that with a default P3D config file, everything is working very smoothly.

 

Regards,

Mars

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I had the dreaded NTDLL crash, always at random times. I made sure AS2016 and FSUIPC were the last entries in the DLL.XML. Never had another crash after that.

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I don't have any crashes with my P3D, but I did get 2 different updates for Objectflow when starting P3D, one day apart. Probably the first one was buggy, but it never caused any problems for me. 

 

 

Hi Bob, I only had one update of the ObjectFlow.dll upon starting P3D four days ago (+/-). You know you can force an update of this module by going to the ORBX folder inside your P3D main directory, and inside the Scripts subfolder, run the file named ObjectFlowUpdate.exe (see pictures below). Current version I have after forcing the update again today is the v1.0.14.2.

 

QPQQb31.jpg

 

J7Pwt3z.jpg

 

Cheers, Ed

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Just had a crash flying from KSFO to KSAN over LAX. P3D 3.4.9.18400. FTX Global, UTX, Aerosoft A320, AS16, ASCA, Pilot2ATC. I haven't had this happen before so I'm not sure what triggered it.

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Current version I have after forcing the update again today is the v1.0.14.2.

 

That's the version I have too.  The key to the crash is the fact you are loading FTX scenery or flying over it.  I am not certain if I started in St Louis and flew to Washington if the crash would still occur as none of the FTX scenery should be loading there.  I posted something at the FTX/Orbx forums in response to someone there who had a crash when loading P3D but he posted back that he disabled the module and he still got the crashes.

 

Personally I could care less about using this module while using FTX scenery.  I see no difference in the scenery with it loaded and not loaded.  I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention in case they are getting this crash with the new P3D update.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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Personally I could care less about using this module while using FTX scenery. I see no difference in the scenery with it loaded and not loaded. I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention in case they are getting this crash with the new P3D update.

 

I made the move to P3Dv3.4.14 today and for now I'm keeping the ObjectFlow.dll module activated in the DLL.xml file. Will need to test a lot more tomorrow and in case I find something useful, I'll post it here.

Keep in touch.

Cheers, Ed

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