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Guest Larry S

SERIOUS CREDIT CARD SCAM NOW HAPPENING....

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Moderator, please do not delete and/or move this post in light of the **seriousness** of this latest Credit Card Phone Scam. Please let this ride for a day so the regulars can read it and better protect themselves...Here is the SCAM....Subject: Lethbridge, Alberta City Police about VISA and MasterCard FraudThe following was forwarded from Lethbridge City Police to the Chamber of Commerce: This is for your information on a new Credit Card Scam. Can you forward it to your members. Randy Ward Constable Community Liaison Officer Lethbridge Regional Police Service Phone (403) 330-5020 Fax (403) 328-3515 randy.ward@police.lethbridge.ab.ca Subject: VISA & MASTERCARD Telephone Credit Card Scam These scammers are getting very smooth! Members: This notice was received from one of our members today and we felt it should be passed along to alert Chamber members of a current fraudulent situation occurring. This information is worth reading. By understanding how the VISA & MasterCard Telephone Credit Card Scam works, you'll be better prepared to protect yourself. Thanks to Dr. Pat Cloney for passing this on. Those con artists get more creative every day. The scam works like this: Person calling says, "this is......... and I'm calling from the Security and Fraud Department at VISA. My Badge number is 12460. Your card has been flagged for an unusual purchase pattern, and I'm calling to verify. This would be on your VISA card which was issued by bank. Did you purchase an Anti-Telemarketing Device for $497.99 from a marketing company based in Arizona?" When you say "No", the caller continues with, "Then we will be issuing a credit to your account. This is a company we have been watching and the charges range from $297 to $497, just under the $500 purchase pattern that flags most cards. Before your next statement, the credit will be sent to (gives you your address), is that correct?" You say "yes". The caller continues... "I will be starting a Fraud investigation. If you have any questions, you should call the 1-800 number listed on the back of your card (1-800-VISA) and ask for Security. You will need to refer to this Control #" The caller then gives you a 6 digit number. "Do you need me to read it again?" Here's the IMPORTANT part on how the scam works. The caller then says, "he needs to verify you are in possession of your card". They will ask you to "turn your card over and look for some numbers. there are 7 numbers; the first 4 are your card number, the next 3 are the 'Security Numbers' that verify you are in possession of the card. These are the numbers you use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card. Read me the 3 numbers". After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he'll say ,"That is correct. I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you have any other questions?" After you say No, the caller then Thanks you and states, "Don't hesitate to call back if you do", and hangs up. You actually say very little, and they never ask for or tell you the card number. But after we were called on Wednesday, we called back within 20 minutes to ask a question. Are we glad we did! The REALVISA Security Department told us it was a scam and in the last 15 minutes a new purchase of $497.99 was charge on our card. Long story made short, we made a real fraud report and closed the VISA card, and they are reissuing us a new number. What the scammers wants is the 3-digit PIN number on the back of the card. Don't give it to them. Instead, tell them you'll call VISA or Master card direct. The real VISA told us that they will never ask for anything on the card as they already know the information since they issued the card! If you give the scammers your 3 Digit PIN Number, you think you're receiving a credit. However, by the time you get your statement, you'll see charges for purchases you didn't make, and by then it's almost to late and/or harder to actually file a fraud report. What makes this more remarkable is that on Thursday, I got a call from a "Jason Richardson of MasterCard" with a word-for-word repeat of the VISA scam. This time I didn't let him finish. I hung up! We filed a police report, as instructed by VISA. The police said they are taking several of these reports daily! They also urged us to tell everybody we know that this scam is happening. - Please pass this on to all your friends. - By informing each other, we protect each other. Thanks everyone!!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------Protect yourselves! Mitch R.

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good post thanks for the heads up. I can see how this scam could very easly work. Thanks again. keith:-beerchug

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You are VERY welcome. I just about gave birth when I read that in my email....I just had to pass it along. I sure hope that it remains in the forum and is LOCKED up at the top for a least two or three days. This is a very smooth and ***SERIOUS*** one. They are getting better with **each** scam delivery and learning from the last...Mitch R.

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Getting cleverer all the time.We were notified of this scam about two months ago and the advice given was that if any credit card company phone you with ANY query at all don't give any information out. Instead just say you'll call them back in a few moments - and hang up.If they give you a number ignore this and ring the number in your records..boneshttp://fsaviation.nethttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

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I don't have any kind of credit card anyway, but I'd actually be tempted to give a completely false PIN if I did receive this kind of call, and let them be frustrated when the transaction fails...Or.... Insist that I phone "them" back using the phone number on the card to verify that they're really Visa/Mastercard/American Express/whatever. They know they won't get the PIN if I do that, so chances are they'll scramble to convince me to just give it up to them or else they'll just cut their losses and hang up..

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Hi Mitch...I don't believe a word of it."there are 7 numbers; the first 4 are your card number, the next 3 are the 'Security Numbers'"If I read correctly, there are many more #s than 7, and no one can get your CC# from your 3 digit pin.Cheers,bt

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Yea, when I check my account on the phone it asks for the last 4 numbers, as those are your personal card numbers.

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They will ask you to "turn your card over and look for some numbers. there are 7 numbers; the first 4 are your card number, the next 3 are the 'Security Numbers' that verify you are in possession of the card. These are the numbers you use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card. Read me the 3 numbers". After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he'll say ,"That is correct. I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you have any other questions?" The 3 numbers are a security to YOUR CARD NUMBER, just because someone abtains YOUR 3 SECURITY NUMBERS WITHOUT your ACTUAL CC# is WORTHLESS and so is this post..... Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/southparkcartmad.gif[h3]PMDG 747![/h3]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)ASUS KV8 DLX | AMD 3200 64 | 1 GIG PC 3200 DDR | GIGABYTE 5700 ULTRA | ViewSonic VP192b 19" |

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Hi Randy, if the post is flawed, how come the the story's victim got fraudulently invoiced? Therefore, your conclusion might be flawed as well? Good luck and kind regards Jaap PS: Thanks for taking your time Mitch. I worry about those, who aren't connected/alone, don't read, etc.

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The credit card number itself consists of 16 digits.These are themselves comprised of numbers identifying the CC company, issueing agency, linked bank account, and a serial number.In addition to that on the back of the card there is a series of 7 digits. The first 4 are irrelevant as they are internal checksum or some such, the last 3 make up a security code much like a PIN.Ever more creditcard transactions (especially online) use this to verify that the transaction is valid.The first 8 or even 12 digits of the CC number are easily guessed as they follow a fixed pattern.The 3 digit security code otoh is pretty random, there is no algorithm that can be used to determine it based on the rest of the CC number and if the criminals have a creditcard slip they stole or copied from somewhere (which contains your name and the 16 digit number) they have no way of determining that code so can do little with the data (unless they have a way of making a false credit card with your data that looks just like the real thing so they can use it in stores).What they do instead is take a phonebook for the area you're located in (as guessed from your creditcard number which contains geographical data as to where it was issued) and randomly call everyone in that area with the correct name and ask for those security codes.If they hit the jackpot they get a working code, at worst they'll have used up a prepaid mobile phone card for no return (they wouldn't use a fixed line in case someone traced them back).

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they probably got the names and 16 digit numbers from stolen slips...

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>they probably got the names and 16 digit numbers from stolen>slips...yep, these people can get your info in a lot of places, for example when you give your card to a waiter, mind you they could get your security code then as well.but they have ways, im happy i dont live in the US with this going on ;)good on the OP for telling us all, i dont think that he should be derided for it.

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It's not just confined to the USA it's happening here in the UK as well!Phil

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>Hi Randy, if the post is flawed, how come the the story's>victim got fraudulently invoiced? Therefore, your conclusion>might be flawed as well? Good luck and kind regards >>Jaap >>>PS: Thanks for taking your time Mitch. I worry about those,>who aren't connected/alone, don't read, etc. SIGH, well because I was hoping people would QUESTION something they READ in an EMAIL even though the subject itself appears correct and "is only to inform us pro ignorant folk". For your sake I post a link to this so called "scam" and hope you get my point..http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_credit_card_fraud.htm Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/southparkcartmad.gif[h3]PMDG 747![/h3]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)ASUS KV8 DLX | AMD 3200 64 | 1 GIG PC 3200 DDR | GIGABYTE 5700 ULTRA | ViewSonic VP192b 19" |

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I've been looking at the Lethbridge PD web page http://www.lethbridge.ca/home/City+Hall/De...ces/default.htmWhat I do see - an email address for the police commission that ends with police.lethbridge.ab.ca.The phone numbers given in the message.Two peoples names, the chief and randy ward. So you could say all the info here can either be confirmed as real, or that it is available for anyone to look up and use. What I don't see is a warning to the public about this "scam". IF it's legit, I would expect some sort of warning to be in public notices on that page.

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a person who makes up such a scam email can obtain the EXACT information that you just pointed out. Look again at the URBAN LEDGENDS page and read this. It is not new, it has been going around in emails FOR YEARS in different forms and most likely did what you did in obtaining information, also good that you did that ;-)..Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/southparkcartmad.gif[h3]PMDG 747![/h3]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)ASUS KV8 DLX | AMD 3200 64 | 1 GIG PC 3200 DDR | GIGABYTE 5700 ULTRA | ViewSonic VP192b 19" |

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Good catch Randy.... The telltale flag is this quote from the "scam" alert:"please pass this on...."Credit Card fraud does happen, but in tandem with that, people have learned that a clever hoax can flood forums and email, flooding networks with traffic nearly equal to an initial virus outbreak.Some of these hoaxes generate millions of emails and thousands of forum posts.When it comes to fraud, each of us has a personal responsibility to protect ourselves and if we're the victim of a fraud, we can educate people. But passing on stories I don't suggest--in the WWW it's the same as standing in a freeway shouting about something that happened to someone else. Everyone's going to hit their brakes, and traffic will slow to a crawl. -John

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>Hi Mitch...I don't believe a word of it.>>"there are 7 numbers; the first 4 are your card number, the>next 3 are the 'Security Numbers'">>If I read correctly, there are many more #s than 7, and no one>can get your CC# from your 3 digit pin.No, but they can get your name and CC# from a carelessly discarded recipt. Then they look you up in the phone book, and start the scam.Identity theft sucks. My SO (luckily, we're not married) got her identity stolen a year and a half ago, to the tune of just under 100,000 dollars worth of debt. We're STILL straigtening out some of the accounts. Personally, I think much of the blame lies with the credit issuing companies. They'll give tons of credit without vetting your ID, and way too much of it. Why in the world would you extend $100,000 worth of revolving credit to someone who only earns $35000 a year?Dan

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Randy---they can have your credit card number from ANY transaction slip you have EVER created by a sales purchase.They then only need you to give the three digit PIN to be able to transact over the internet, etc.By having a card, you have left a paper and electronic trail---ALL BEHIND YOU! Each store, every C.C. receipt you have not shredded, but have 'lost', misplaced, or simply thrown out in the garbage. This is only one way of getting your number, let alone a dishonest store clerk.....Recently there has been a rash of C.C. fraud whereby you give up sight of your card (ie: food, gas----) to an attendant/server, and they not only swipe once for your purchase of food or gas, etc, but then multiple times for other add on's. This is a threat that has happened to two persons I know. Two in fact! People are getting desperate out there, due to lay-offs, closures, any kind of loss of job----- and some are dropping their chin to the curb.....to try to survive.Not all things are rosy in our economy. Be careful...Cheers!Mitch R.

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I sent this post to my sister last night and just received a post back from her stating to thank me and that she and her husband watched the news a few nights ago, and it was being stated by the newscaster with the story to follow.This is legit. What you do with the information and how it might or might not affect your handling of C.C. purchases, etc is of course totally your choice.If you find this nonsense, then nothing is lost to you. If someone else reads this, and it prepares them for a day that they might actually be targeted for this scam--they are now totally prepared for it.I'll always post something like this, rather than not. I'll let the reader discern the content.For myself? I choose to make note of it, and am now prepared.Happy Holidays!Mitch R.

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Just because this particular example isn't true doesn't mean the practice isn't happening.It is...

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Certainly this IS a FAKE email that is the EXACT that has been going around since 2002. Does CC fraud happen? Of course. But what does that have to do with this silly story? You cannot get a CC# from your 3 digit security code! Saying one story based upon a LIE does not convice ME. For god's sake just call Visa and ask if you don't believe me. It's on the urban legends page, for those who do not know what exactly that means it's a page dedicated to MYTHS and silly things people believe like if you eat water melon seeds you will start to grow water melon in your gut.Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/southparkcartmad.gif[h3]PMDG 747![/h3]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)ASUS KV8 DLX | AMD 3200 64 | 1 GIG PC 3200 DDR | GIGABYTE 5700 ULTRA | ViewSonic VP192b 19" |

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You still don't understand it do you?If I steal some creditcard slips and have some knowledge of the system (which Google would provide I'm sure) I can find out the telephone number of the owner of the creditcards used.I can then just phone those people and ask them for their 3 digit code.Together with the 16 digit code from the stolen slip I now have all I need to make online purchases with no need for the card at all.

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Whether or not the e-mail is a fake is irrelevant.The last 3 or 4 digit security code is increasing being requested for on-line transactions as well as the full card number. Accordingly, you should never give ANY information about your credit card.

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My bank here in Sweden has pretty good system where you can go to their website annd generate a new credit card # for every purchase, and specify the expiration date as well as a credit limit yourself. So e.g. if I want to buy a $20 addon I set the limit to $20 and expiration date to 1 month from then and I get a unique credit card # and CV2 code for that purchase. Also works for phone/fax orders.Of course if someone would hack into that system it would be a disaster so it's not 100% safe.In fact I think all these electronic transfers, Internet banks and internet purchases are like a bomb waiting to go off. Sooner or later someone will hack into a major bank or payment processor and manage to steal billions of $ resulting in total collapse of civilization. Or something :)

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