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DeDave98

It cant be long right?

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Hey guys,

 

I did some math:

PMDG DC6 Livery List release: 26.5.26

PMDG DC6 release: 2.6.16

 

Thats 7 days.

 

The livery list for the 747 was released 23.12.16. 

Today its 4.1.17. So we cant be that far from release or am I missing something?

 

Regards

David

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While it would be nice, past releases are not necessarily indicative of the future. We could be days, weeks, or months away. Nobody apart from PMDG knows when it'll happen.

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So we cant be that far from release or am I missing something?

 

Hi,

You don't expect an answer from PMDG, do you?  :Tounge:

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By the way, full names are required in each post on this forum as per rules.

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PMDG have the right approach to announcing (or not) release dates.    Once you name a day,     you either release on that day  and you're a good guy  or you dont and you're not.      But suppose between announcing a date and the release date you find another bug or problem in the product??     Do you release anyway,   hoping no one will notice or delay release and then be a bad guy?     Far too many software companies release anyway. 

PMDG have a far better attitude -   I remember them saying "we'll release it when it's ready.   Not before.  It's ready when it's ready."      And they resist the temptation to name a date before that time.    It must be hard to resist the temptation because so many of us want the new product and we're getting excited about it.     They must be tempted to tell us "yes it'll be about 3 weeks" or some such.   But they dont.  

And i congratulate them for that.       Release it when it's ready.    It's ready when it's ready.    Not before.

Cheers

Mike Kear

Windsor, NSW, Australia

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Goodmorning Gents,

 

 

Will the upcoming 747-400 V3 also be sold as a boxed version in Europe (maybe through Aerosoft) or can it be ordered directly as a boxed version from the US? However tempting it may be to download the online file, I would prefer the aforementioned box...

 

Cheers, Marc

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I like your logic, if you ask me it will not take much longer (From my point of view) :) BETA is going on a few months now and with P3D in BETA now is good progress.

 

Robin

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Will the upcoming 747-400 V3 also be sold as a boxed version in Europe (maybe through Aerosoft) or can it be ordered directly as a boxed version from the US? However tempting it may be to download the online file, I would prefer the aforementioned box...

 

Hi Marc,

 

Just a heads up regarding boxed versions, based on past observations and experience:

 

1) If PMDG does an update you will most likely have to download that update -- quite possibly a full installer -- from Aerosoft.  If you buy the boxed version soon after release it is very likely PMDG will do one or more updates, either to fix bugs, or to add new features (such as Wx radar with the NGX and a smaller memory footprint with the 777). 

 

2) There is typically a delay between the time an update is released for download on PMDG's web site and the time it is released on Aerosoft's web site.

 

Mike

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I can give you one hint that even PMDG can't deny, today we are one day closer to release than yesterday.

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I can give you one hint that even PMDG can't deny, today we are one day closer to release than yesterday.

 

depends on what part of the world your are :Tounge:

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depends on what part of the world your are :Tounge:

 

I am very curious, what part of the world doesn't have today? Or yesterday? :)

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Why not just release thing as-is and then fix it later... like everyone else is doing these days. Hell, we can all pay for the thing now and then help finish up the beta process!

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Why not just release thing as-is and then fix it later... like everyone else is doing these days. Hell, we can all pay for the thing now and then help finish up the beta process!

 

Because that is not proper management. Personnally I really don't think this is a good idea, as the more bugs that are left the more you may disappoint some users. I'm really happy with PMDG taking their time to make a product that meets high standard right out from version 1.0. Also let's be honest a full beta with the number of customers they have would probably be very hard to manage, how to make sure bugs are not duplicate of previous bugs and so on. You then need people to check new reported bugs to see if they are important or already exists or not. While the close/small beta team most probably have a tool to check bugs and to not report them again, making things manageable.

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Aurelien is on the mark here. The sim industry fits into quite a niche.

 

It's one thing for a group like Dice doing a wide, very-late-stage, beta across the world because that's exactly what they need: their product is made specifically to have 30-60ish people on a single map, and handle loads of people running through a bunch of servers. They need hundreds if not thousands of people to stress test their product to suss out any bugs. It is a literal necessity for them in order to properly test their product, which exists for and depends on a simultaneous mass of users. If you only had 12 people running around a 60 person map, it would get a bit boring, but it would also mean that your servers aren't getting realistic loads for a session. Again, this sort of thing is also going to be a very-late-stage beta version, where a smaller (perhaps fully internal) beta team has hammered on the software to get the major bugs out.

 

Some developers in our industry might do similar, as more users can help to better identify trends in the data, but you have to weigh that benefit over the cost of managing it. Developing scenery might lend better to having a ton of people look it over, as there's very little 'knowledge' that comes into play. All the same, it might be better to keep that team to a group of people who works at the specific airport being designed to help ensure that you're only having to respond to people who know the airport like the back of their hand. You could also mix those two approaches with little issue, which would allow you to have the people who work there let you know that a texture is off, or a door is missing, or something else that a casual simmer would not, while the casual simmers could help you suss out issues with effects, lighting, general texture corruption and so on. Mass approaches can also work well with weather and other items like camera programs.

 

When you get into aircraft, though, you start introducing more of a knowledge element. It's less of an issue of clear right and wrong. When it comes to complex aircraft, you start getting into topics that require a lot of knowledge. As you can see with a cursory glance around the forum, and the fact that the Intro Manual has an entire section on common misconceptions about how the aircraft should function, there are a number of people who will assume the aircraft should behave one way, but actually behaves in another. People on the beta team carry this trait as well. This is a good thing, because I wouldn't be able to write that "common misconceptions" section if they didn't, but it could also be absolutely dismal if you had thousands of people on a beta team sending you thousands of emails reporting something that isn't actually behaving incorrectly. You'd essentially need someone on the team to manage all of the responses and identify what is, and isn't, actually a bug. Keeping a smaller beta team, however, primarily eliminates this requirement, since the you're only dealing with a handful of reports, and the smaller team also tends to communicate within its members (to correct each other where misconceptions, or previously reported items, come into play). For any of you in or post college, think of the dynamics between a giant lecture-based class, and a smaller class. Similarly, the smaller environment encourages actual involvement. If there are 3000 people, I may not report something because I think one of the other people will do it. On the other hand, if there are only 30, I'm more likely to speak up since I may be the only person in that group of people to notice it.

 

There's also a larger security element. Granted, a fully public beta somewhat eliminates this concern, but a fully public beta also has its own concerns (that I'll discuss in a moment). When you leave on vacation, do you leave your keys with someone in your family, a friend, or some random person? Why? I'm willing to bet that your answer is going to largely center on established trust. People you have a relationship with are less likely to sacrifice that trust. A larger group made up of a higher percentage of a random selection of people is a larger risk in that regard.

 

As somewhat of a final note, there are a number in this industry/hobby who don't quite understand (or don't quite want to understand) the purpose of beta. I see this a lot when people mention being jealous of someone with access to the beta (though I can kind of understand this one), and when I see various posts of other products in beta (though this is usually more in the generic games arena and not so much the sim). While it's true that being on a beta team gets you access to a product that you want, most people want the actual, functional, working, enjoyable copy of the software. If that's what you were getting for being on the beta team, then you wouldn't be on the beta team - it would be released. Being on a beta team means you're testing, writing up reports for issues, running through a test scenario to try and pin down steps to reproduce, running through test scenarios as recommended by the team, and otherwise hammering on the software to try and find out where it breaks. It's kinda neat, but it's not always fun. Looking at various posts from public betas of games, it's obvious that a lot of people just wanted access to the game, and were less than forgiving when reminded that they were there to help test an unfinished product. When you have a smaller team of people that you've invited in because you've seen their passion, it's a lot easier to predict what kind of tester they will be to avoid stuff like this. The last thing I want to do is offer a test position to someone who would see the fact that there are still bugs in an early beta, the software isn't entirely fun to fly yet at that stage, and then have them just give up, not fly, and otherwise "tie up" a beta position that someone with more of a testing mindset could be in.

 

We use somewhat of a two-step approach where we have a Tech Team of actual pilots, mechanics, and other people who have worked specifically with the aircraft we're simulating. They take care of a ton of the "the aircraft should behave this way" stuff. The Beta Team then gets the aircraft and they usually end up getting outside of normal procedures - either due to lack of knowledge, or simply a different mindset - to find out inventive ways to break the plane. The Beta Team is made up of people who are representative of the sim community, but are people who we trust, and know who have a passion about flying/simming. This setup has done well for us over the years. I get that it might not always make sense to everyone, and there are many who will criticize it, but when you break it down for the industry in which we exist, and for our specific purpose, you start to see exactly why we do it the way we do it.

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Because that is not proper management.

 

My comment was in jest, in light of may developers who have taken this route, recently (and unfortunately).

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Having been on the Beta team at one point (MD-11, I think actually by mistaken identity which I tried to correct, but hey ho..) I can say from experience that it's a lot of effort.  I actually remember writing to RSR towards the end of it simply saying that I didn't have the time to contribute like the others did and consequently should really be left out of it.  I also offered to relinquish the 'perk' as it only seemed right.  He was pretty generous actually, and still gave me the MD-11 despite me saying I'd pay for it.

 

Being on Beta teams may seem like it's a lot of Kudos, we do a lot where I work as well, and it's true that you do get some perks, but there is an element of work to this and effort involved.  To be perfectly honest, at least from my perspective I wouldn't put the time in to be on any Beta team, life for me is just too busy (plus home command thinks I 'fly' too much as it is).  For those that 'wish' to be on it, just be careful what you wish for... personally.. I like to pay my money when it's out.. and have none of the hassle (uninstalling, reinstalling, uninstalling, reinstalling.. sometimes twice a day.. it does become a bind folks).

 

Cheers

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