It was not that long ago PMDG stated unequivocally they would not produce products for P3D and their licensing agreements prohibited them from doing such. Then when brand X started providing products for P3D, PMDG made an 180 on that statement. Sure, in the end, it was a good thing for the community, but it just goes to show, you can't believe everything PMDG posts.

 

Yeah, but surely developers can change their position? Orbx has done it, PMDG has done it. The difference between, PMDG, Orbx and 'other' developers is that they have leverage. They know their products have huge demand, which changes very little if they adopt a new position on sales, or pricing. A forum commentary is just a stated view at the time - not necessarily a formal announcement. If people want something badly enough, they'll pay for it.

 

If Barnyard Bob however, decides to develop (a product) for flightsim, takes a position on pricing and changes it next week, I personally wouldn't touch him with a yardstick. He has no product track record - and now he (obviously) has no integrity. He has no leverage - only what he has or hasn't produced, which is unlikely to be anywhere near to what PMDG are doing.

And maybe this is why this market will never grow more than it already did - it's driven by developers not by customers, like with other genres. But current customer base allows it and that one is most disturbing.

If LM would have started this 6 year old endeavor with a 64 bit version, then nobody would have to worry about re-purchasing addons more then once.  In those 6 years the biggest drawback for the simulator was the memory bottleneck and it should have been addressed long ago. X-plane has been 64bit for 4 years now. 3 major releases from LM and we can still see the rust from FSX. Of course all of this is from a consumer perspective and is probably irrelevant. I'm sure they have made some great updates for commercial simulation; since eye candy isn't required, it was a good decision to put 64bit on the back-burner.

 

 

If LM would have started this 6 year old endeavor with a 64 bit version, then nobody would have to worry about re-purchasing addons more then once

 

Do you honestly think that is going to be a criteria considered by the world's  biggest defence contractor.  'Little Billy is going to have to pay twice for his simulated aircraft, therefore our development roadmap needs to change.'  I think not.  

 

 

 

And maybe this is why this market will never grow more than it already did

 

I assume from your commentary that you have market share data to hand? Or is that an assumed position?  The flightsim market is niche anyway - it's never going to be GTAV level demand.  Most of the general game playing populace don't have the attention span - or the interest in sticking with a flightsim.   Most haven't got a clue about the basic science of flight, and even less have a desire to take on a steep learning curve.  It's easier to pull the trigger button and shoot something.

 

I'm not saying the PMDG stance is right or wrong, but they're in the business of making and selling simulation software. PMDG are not a tin pot operation.  They have a highly skilled developement team which needs to be paid, theyre building a sim centre, Mr Randazzo owns and operates his own DC-3....  All of that sounds quite costly to me.  It makes complete business sense to do what they are doing - and unfortunately we are at their mercy in that regard.   But there are worse things in life. 

 

 

Do you honestly think that is going to be a criteria considered by the world's  biggest defence contractor.  'Little Billy is going to have to pay twice for his simulated aircraft, therefore our development roadmap needs to change.'  I think not.

 

You didn't read my whole post? The answer is of course, no....that was my point. Why keep buying a simulator over and over version after version, when your requirements are not being considered at all. Your funding a project for them.

I'm looking/hoping for some things to change in the core simulator that make a lot of add ons obsolete. 

 

Just to give you an example: Because P3D doesn't have real global lighting, there's noway to light up a dark cockpit to get things started. XP has a flash-light you can use, but that's not possible in P3D because lighted panels are actually just loaded textures. So now there's an add-on that lights up the cockpit in PMDG planes at your request so you can then turn on the real lights and fly the plane. 

 

In other words, we've now got add-ons for our add-ons for our add-ons. 

 

It's just not sustainable. Not from a monetary point of view for most people and not from a practical point of view with the software. Eventually, the sim becomes so bloated and so full of different developers that issues are going to arise. It already happens in P3D now. 

 

If P3D4 takes a big enough step forward, at least in regards to lighting and default scenery, then you won't need to worry about repurchasing some add ons.

 

And if that's not in their plans, fine. I just won't buy it. 64bit alone is not enough of an incentive. 

If P3D4 takes a big enough step forward, at least in regards to lighting and default scenery, then you won't need to worry about repurchasing some add ons.

 

And if that's not in their plans, fine. I just won't buy it. 64bit alone is not enough of an incentive.

Agree with you on that - i really do hope they change the lighting model.

 

 

Why keep buying a simulator over and over version after version, when your requirements are not being considered at all

That choice is up to you?

You didn't read my whole post? The answer is of course, no....that was my point. Why keep buying a simulator over and over version after version, when your requirements are not being considered at all. Your funding a project for them.

I beg to differ with not only your statement above, but this entire line of thinking.

Point one......To say that LM and the developers of Prepar3d don't care about our needs and desires is just plain wrong. Every product and version release has been full of changes that benefit and in many cases were made because of our request here as well as the Prepar3d forum.

 

Point two....We can not have it both ways....In one post we claim that we a too small a group and that we are not important to LM. The next post like above claims that we are in fact funding the project for them. One of those assumptions has to be wrong.

 

Point three...We as a group want changes, improvements, more features, 64bit, lighting changes, better ATC and AI just to name a few. Those things are all great but for the life of me, I can not figure out why people who are in this hobby are convinced that all of these things should be free. I am 69 years old and I have never received one dam thing in this life that was free and you are not going to either. If you want a faster car then you pay for it...need a better putter for golf then you pay for it. What on earth is so different about Flight simulators and related software.

 

I for one am sick and tired of watching you guys beat the life out of the companies like LM, MS and the developers who work hard to give you the very things you are asking for because for some reason you think that flight simmers have some god given right to free stuff.

I beg to differ with not only your statement above, but this entire line of thinking.

Point one......To say that LM and the developers of Prepar3d don't care about our needs and desires is just plain wrong. Every product and version release has been full of changes that benefit and in many cases were made because of our request here as well as the Prepar3d forum.

 

Point two....We can not have it both ways....In one post we claim that we a too small a group and that we are not important to LM. The next post like above claims that we are in fact funding the project for them. One of those assumptions has to be wrong.

 

Point three...We as a group want changes, improvements, more features, 64bit, lighting changes, better ATC and AI just to name a few. Those things are all great but for the life of me, I can not figure out why people who are in this hobby are convinced that all of these things should be free. I am 69 years old and I have never received one dam thing in this life that was free and you are not going to either. If you want a faster car then you pay for it...need a better putter for golf then you pay for it. What on earth is so different about Flight simulators and related software.

 

I for one am sick and tired of watching you guys beat the life out of the companies like LM, MS and the developers who work hard to give you the very things you are asking for because for some reason you think that flight simmers have some god given right to free stuff.

 

 

No one is asking for anything for free.

 

Asking for piece of software to evolve and improve is not asking for something to be free. I will be paying for P3D 4.0 as will everyone else. The idea that flight simulators should stand still in time as far as feature sets go is dumb to me. We should expect progression just like any other piece of software. That means new features, new capabilities, and core changes to the platform accomplished with each new purchased version. 

 

Otherwise, we might as well stick with P3D 3.4. 

I beg to differ with not only your statement above, but this entire line of thinking.

Point one......To say that LM and the developers of Prepar3d don't care about our needs and desires is just plain wrong. Every product and version release has been full of changes that benefit and in many cases were made because of our request here as well as the Prepar3d forum.

 

I agree. If they don't care about us, they sure spend a lot of time changing stuff for people they don't care about. 

 

It's also a misnomer that commercial applications "don't care about eye candy." Even in the commercial world, graphical advancements do happen. More so with P3D because they want it to be a 3 level simulator (air, land, sea), which will mean better graphics on the ground are a necessity in the future for them to compete with other platforms being developed. 

No one is asking for anything for free.

 

Asking for piece of software to evolve and improve is not asking for something to be free. The idea that flight simulators should stand still in time as far as feature sets go is dumb to me. We should expect progression just like any other piece of software. That means new features, new capabilities, and core changes to the platform accomplished with each new purchased version. 

 

Otherwise, we might as well stick with P3D 3.4. 

Based on your logic, then I should be able to take my 2002 Ford F150 over to the dealer and get it upgraded to the new release version of the 2017 F150 for free. After all it is only an upgrade from F150 version 2002 to F150 Version 2017. Now if it were a version F151.2017 then that would be different. Sorry...Wrong my friend!

 

 

Point two....We can not have it both ways....In one post we claim that we a too small a group and that we are not important to LM. The next post like above claims that we are in fact funding the project for them. One of those assumptions has to be wrong.

 

No, that wasn't the point at all. The words small and unimportant were never used. We are playing a very big and important role.

 

 

Point three...We as a group want changes, improvements, more features, 64bit, lighting changes, better ATC and AI just to name a few. Those things are all great but for the life of me, I can not figure out why people who are in this hobby are convinced that all of these things should be free. I am 69 years old and I have never received one dam thing in this life that was free and you are not going to either. If you want a faster car then you pay for it...need a better putter for golf then you pay for it. What on earth is so different about Flight simulators and related software.

 

Again, I don't know where this is coming from. P3D has had 3 major releases in the last 6 years. Lots of people have purchased it, and some people have 2 or 3 times. That's a lot of money. Humor me for a minute and image that Microsoft was still producing flight simulator. So, since FSX, you have now seen 3 more versions come out of their shop...Do you think it would look anything like P3D? Do you think it would be 64bit and use multicore CPU's and graphics cards? Scenery improvement? Better flight dynamics? What about lighting, would that be better? That's about $180 spent; with little to show for it. I think you have it backwards.

Based on your logic, then I should be able to take my 2002 Ford F150 over to the dealer and get it upgraded to the new release version of the 2017 F150 for free. After all it is only an upgrade from F150 version 2002 to F150 Version 2017. Now if it were a version F151.2017 then that would be different. Sorry...Wrong my friend!

 

 

No, you should be able to buy a new 2017 F150 and you should expect it's improved over the 2002 model. 

 

Last I checked, we'll all be paying full price for P3D 4.0. It's not going to be given away for free. 

No, that wasn't the point at all. The words small and unimportant were never used. We are playing a very big and important role.

 

 

 

Again, I don't know where this is coming from. P3D has had 3 major releases in the last 6 years. Lots of people have purchased it, and some people have 2 or 3 times. That's a lot of money. Humor me for a minute and image that Microsoft was still producing flight simulator. So, since FSX, you have now seen 3 more versions come out of their shop...Do you think it would look anything like P3D? Do you think it would be 64bit and use multicore CPU's and graphics cards? Scenery improvement? Better flight dynamics? What about lighting, would that be better? That's about $180 spent; with little to show for it. I think you have it backwards.

Based on the direction that MS took with "Flight" then I would have to guess that the MS product would not have scenery for the whole world, it would not have near the number or quality of Add ons that are availiable for P3D and most likely not be 64bit because of folks complaining about backward compatibility. I also think that many of us who use P3D would probably by this time be driving race cars or leaving our computers and going out into "the BIG"...LOL

No, you should be able to buy a new 2017 F150 and you should expect it's improved over the 2002 model. 

 

Last I checked, we'll all be paying full price for P3D 4.0. It's not going to be given away for free. 

No Problem...you miss my point but I know you don't want to see it. That's fine.

Based on the direction that MS took with "Flight" then I would have to guess that the MS product would not have scenery for the whole world, it would not have near the number or quality of Add ons that are availiable for P3D and most likely not be 64bit because of folks complaining about backward compatibility. I also think that many of us who use P3D would probably by this time be driving race cars or leaving our computers and going out into "the BIG"...LOL

No Problem...you miss my point but I know you don't want to see it. That's fine.

 

 

No. I didn't miss your point unless you aren't explaining it well enough. 

 

Your original post basically said that people who are expecting improvements to the core simulator are expecting something for free. If that's not what you meant, maybe explain it another way so we can get your point. 

 

I'll reiterate. No one is asking for P3D4 to be free. 

 

 

I'll reiterate. No one is asking for P3D4 to be free. 

OK....that is what you got from my post???!! LOL OK YOU got me. You are the winner!! You are smarter than I will ever be!! I now agree with you completely. You have convinced me that new born sea turtles do in fact go towards the sea because it is usually the brightest horizon. I hope i read you "reiterate" correctly. I think I got it now!!