So, about that citation...

I think let's stop it here...everybody has had their voices heard..I am also excited about the citation...yippie...

So, about that citation...

Well, I can't show you what I've done yet.  Some things are best left to surprise.  I think I showed too much already.

:wink:

Yeah, I can totally sympathise Goran having to frequently bear the brunt of others' miscommunications and it's a real pity this has any effect on your work / income / peace of mind. That's the bind for many users though, desperately want to support the product (because they deserve it, not through any sense of liking the devs), but just can't put up with the 'quirks' of the support guys.

 

Hopefully things will change / improve to a point where we can all just interact in a normal customer / vendor way...

 

 

WOW! I've never seen anything like that posted by a developer.

 

I could not have written that any better.

 

 

The thing is the customer doesn't know about the things behind the scenes and 99% of the time he doesn't care about it.

 

Problem is that those things will haunt you and the sad part is that you as a developer will pay the bill in sales not happening. Even though out of context, that whole "we will not support you if you have x-enviro installed" debacle will be spread and spread and alienate people that think about buying it. It is not true and the following posts from Morten and Cameron in that regard are alot more supportive but the damage is done. It will get circulated true or not.   There was always friction in the whole .org / x-aviation story. But i feel it has gotten alot more violent in the last months, i mean the klaue sasl/gizmo drama was tame compared to that.

 

I just feel frustrated when i see the great work that you the ixeg / sundog team do in building bridges and offering usefull friendly posts only to see the bridges get burnt down by post like the above or facebook fights that you are not even involved.  I guess its all speculation on what the effect of this drama is, noone can tell if it really resulted in lost sales or not. But i feel if the road continues down like that nothing good is comming out of that.

 

 

Since that FB post was related to IXEG, I just wanted to say, from what I know of two of their main developers (MortenM and Cpt. Janov), interacting with them on forums and PM, that they are two very correct and nice persons, full of love for the work they've done. Since the majority of the money you spend for an add-on goes to the developers (I suppose), in cases like this buying an add-on is worth it even if you don't like the publisher. And of course this is true also for other developers.

 

That being said, I can understand when people have bad experiences or concerns about support from a publisher and voice them in the forums.

 

(Sorry for the form, english is not my native language).

 

Just multi quoting this and letting you all know I have read everything and taken it all in.  

Well, I can't show you what I've done yet.  Some things are best left to surprise.  I think I showed too much already.

:wink:

 

Other than obvious work that needs to possibly be re-done in light of XP11 features, the cockpit shots you've shown a long time ago made it seem fairly... complete. What has been keeping you busy on the Citation if you don't mind us asking? 

Other than obvious work that needs to possibly be re-done in light of XP11 features, the cockpit shots you've shown a long time ago made it seem fairly... complete. What has been keeping you busy on the Citation if you don't mind us asking? 

 

Knowing the work of Goran and J Gregory I am certain it is the painstaking detail attention to the systems modeling. The Citation is a complex aircraft, probably more so than the Saab.

 

When you see screenshots of a project, keep in mind that you are seeing less than the tip of an iceberg. Its quick and fairly easy (comparatively speaking) to make a nice 3D model of an aircraft. Getting it to work right is where the meat is.

 

Jan

Ok, also looking forward to that citation now :smile: :smile: :smile:

Other than obvious work that needs to possibly be re-done in light of XP11 features, the cockpit shots you've shown a long time ago made it seem fairly... complete. What has been keeping you busy on the Citation if you don't mind us asking?

It's just re-doing a lot of the work. To give you an idea, I was texturing the Citation panel a little while ago. Forgive me if you already know this stuff, but 1 of the steps to texturing is baking an occlusion map. It gives the different objects that meet with other objects a sense of depth. Google it and you'll see. Anyway, just for the Citation panel, I had to bake an occlusion map at least 7 times. Reason being, when I model or unwrap something, it's very easy to miss things. Something may not have been unwrapped properly, and I would only see it when I test it in sim and see the stretched textures. So, have to go back to Modo, find the problem, re-unwrap, re-map, re-bake, re-texture, re-test. Then find out the resolution of the text isn't as clear as I want it to be. So I have to go back to the mesh the text is on, enlarge the unwrapped mesh on the UV map, re-bake, re-texture, re-test.

No matter how thorough a developer is, something will always be missed and need to be fixed. Some developers ignore it. Oh, then it can come to normal maps. Some 3D programs can bake an occlusion map taking the normal map into consideration and bake out occlusion in the normal map. So, I might find a crack, or stitching, or a seam in the mesh, and instead of modelling it, I'll make a normal map out of it. Add it to the mesh in Modo, re-bake the occlusion map, re-texture, re-test. Sometimes if I want to make lines, rivets or seams, on the fuselage for example, they can get distorted if the mesh isn't unwrapped perfectly. I might see a rogue bit of distortion. Guess what? Back in modo, re-unwrap, re-bake, re-texture, re-test.

Some things can be done manually without re-baking, but I want to do it properly. It's payware, and it should be good quality done the right way. Not make mistakes and attempt to band aid them.

Any questions, class?

Just saw Janov's post. He got it right, first go. The same definitely applies to code. Code, save, open X-Plane, test. Crash? Re-code, re-save, reload the aircraft, reload the scripts, re-test. And so on, and so on.

...and I complain that unwrapping and baking for terminals and buildings is a chore :mad: , I can only imagine how much of a pain it is for an aircraft panel. I really like the modelling and texturing part but I really hate the unwrapping part, especially when you miss a bit or it's stretched and have to bake again.

I can relate to it from a coding perspective..especially the part where you test you changes... Rebuild the solution, create the plugin xplane, then restart xplane or reload your plugin ...

...and I complain that unwrapping and baking for terminals and buildings is a chore :mad: , I can only imagine how much of a pain it is for an aircraft panel. I really like the modelling and texturing part but I really hate the unwrapping part, especially when you miss a bit or it's stretched and have to bake again.

 

Tony, I would unwrap and bake a terminal for you for FREE just to take a break from unwrapping aircraft mesh.

 

I can relate to it from a coding perspective..especially the part where you test you changes... Rebuild the solution, create the plugin xplane, then restart xplane or reload your plugin ...

 

Many people don't see that part.  Like Janov said...what people see is the tip of the iceberg when they see screenshots or the final product.

This image sums it up PERFECTLY!

 

unwrapping aircraft mesh

 

Have you ever tried the 3ds max unwrapping tools, or is modo the better choice for your work?

Ben wrote, that he wants 3ds max to be a first class x-plane citizen. 3ds max is great, but it has a huge drawback. You cannot buy, you have to rent it. It's expensive.

 

Tom

 

 

Ben wrote, that he wants 3ds max to be a first class x-plane citizen. 3ds max is great, but it has a huge drawback.

 

That would be really unfortunate for freeware developers, I hope they continue to keep Blender updated.

Have you ever tried the 3ds max unwrapping tools, or is modo the better choice for your work?

Ben wrote, that he wants 3ds max to be a first class x-plane citizen. 3ds max is great, but it has a huge drawback. You cannot buy, you have to rent it. It's expensive.

 

Tom

 

I tried 3dsmax about 5 years ago.  I didn't like it, to be honest.  Tried Maya, C4D, AC3D, even Rhino.  I tried a lot of 3D programs back then, but stuck with Blender for several years.  Discovered Modo and it just seemed to fit.  Haven't looked back.

That would be really unfortunate for freeware developers, I hope they continue to keep Blender updated.

 

Hi Toni, I'm sure they do no tough blender support. Would be crazy to cut away the branch while sitting on it. Anyway if you like to read it by yourself (comment section)

http://developer.x-plane.com/2016/12/x-plane-11-00-public-beta-2-is-here/#comments

Tom