cleonpack93

PMDG for DTG's Flight Sim World

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With DTG announcing Flight Sim World's early access release later this month, FSX is officially going to become more obsolete than it already is. So, for nervous people like me who have a lot of money sunk into FSX and are anxiously watching, the big question is: what add-on's will be developed for FSW and how much are we going to have to re-spend to upgrade?

What are PMDG's plans for FSW? Will there be any discount for upgrading from FSX products to FSW or will we have to re-buy? Which currently available PMDG planes will become available for FSW in the future?

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I think it really is too early to say honestly. First they would need to get the proper access to the sim it's tool and so see what it provides. Which I'm not sure they have right now.

As for the upgrade, I'd let them answer but it also depends on their licensing with Boeing on what they can do or not do, but also that there will be a lot of work to go to FSW, it's 64 bits so nothing will work directly, and it is not as simple as checking a 64bits and recompiling everything. It also depends on what will be provided by DTG. I also thing that they might wait till the plateform is stable, which means the sim is finished and out of early access, which could take some time, some games/soft go through more than a year of EA.

 

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Why do people start asking these questions so early? I wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to DT even releasing a half decent simulator. I have very little faith in them.

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I sure can't see myself going back around again sinking the kind of money into another sim I have invested in FSX. With all the years of development for FSX that has been done, along with untold hours of studying advice for optimization, I pretty much have my sim. I can't see picking up another unless it's just knock out fantastic and will run great on a mid level PC. Default aircraft would have to be PMDG, A2A level, with a ASN type WX system, along with pay ware level default scenery.

Of course I,m an aged codger but if I was a young feller with a long life line still ahead I would be quite interested.

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36 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

Default aircraft would have to be PMDG, A2A level, with a ASN type WX system, along with pay ware level default scenery.

From the Steam site:

Features

Integration of Accu-Feel™ technology

Fleet of highly detailed GA aircraft

Easy to use flight planner

Realistic flight model

Integrated Orbx FTX Global textures

Lessons and missions to test your skills

Pilot profile to keep track of your flight hours

Pro Mission Editor

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2 hours ago, petkez said:

Why do people start asking these questions so early?

DTG already said they have been working with 3rd party developers on add-ons, so who knows if PMDG is among the list? That is why.

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As excited as I wanted to be about this, I have serious concerns now that they pulled DTG:FS off the market.  That is highly suspect.  I knew it was be a failure in the sales department because I've said all along, there is no market for entry-level simmers.  However, they decided to continue with the product and released it.  Pulling it sends a bad message.

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Well if 64bit means no PMDG add-ons bad news for P3Dv4 if its 64bit.

Ray Fry.

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2 hours ago, rjfry said:

Well if 64bit means no PMDG add-ons bad news for P3Dv4 if its 64bit.

Ray Fry.

What?

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9 hours ago, cleonpack93 said:

DTG already said they have been working with 3rd party developers on add-ons, so who knows if PMDG is among the list? That is why.

I doubt there is something like that in the pipeline, or else PMDG would have released some sort of statement informing us of new plans.   I stand to be corrected, but I don't think so.

Regards

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8 hours ago, rjfry said:

Well if 64bit means no PMDG add-ons bad news for P3Dv4 if its 64bit.

Ray Fry.

I think you're not correct, that's never been the fcase, and actually remember on the first release they did for P3D, they were covering the change to P3D v3 (at the time of this release the v2 was availaible) and they had told that if in the v3 there were the change to 64 bits, they would update their product. The thread is probably quite old but I'm sure you can find it back. 

So wether they support a new sim or not is really not based at all on wether the sim is 32 or 64 bits, the support probably depends on many more things, like the number of users, the availability of the tools and SDK they need, as well as the platform stability, with an Early Access program the sofwtare will by definition be unstable and change regularly which is not the right time to develop complex products like PMDG does.

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More than a year ago, I had asked a PMDG tech support guy if he knew anything about the new sim. He said he knew stuff but couldn't tell me. It is more than likely that DTG has been working with PMDG and other devs to ensure that the new sim is as addon-friendly as possible.

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Guys, just for your information.
Jordan King said yesterday he received a "go" for most part of his NDA. Whatever that means, it confirms that a lot of developers and gurus from the flight simulation world were actually aware about the progress of the sim, yet they could not speak due to that NDA. I guess the same applies to P3Dv4. The fact that nothing have been said for long time until yesterday's announcement, does not mean that nothing was happening behind the scenes. I hope this answers the OP question.

So, be patient. And remember that both FSW and P3Dv4 will be simply reworked, revamped, optimized 64-bit versions of the same engine. My understanding, or at at least my guess, is that your current addons will be compatible in a near future after some recompiling. I would not be surprised if some developers, like PMDG, Aerosoft and other major 3rd party developers, would came up with a 64bit version ot their respective products in a matter of weeks after the final release.

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1 hour ago, barrel_owl said:

I would not be surprised if some developers, like PMDG, Aerosoft and other major 3rd party developers, would came up with a 64bit version ot their respective products in a matter of weeks after the final release.

I do not think it is that simple, of course for simple programs it can be, but for complex piece of engineering like PMDG do there could be side effects, the tpe size differ so calculations could change slightly. So it won't be that simple.

Another example is FSUIPC, this program very important for many addons will simply not work right at the start, and might not for a long time, it uses some "hooks" to get data from and to the sim memory, which requires to know where in memory those data will be. With the 64 bit switch, all those reference are simply not existing anymore as the memory will be addressed in 64 bits, which mean, it will require to analyze the new sim, and found those new memory locations to use.

So really I don't think it's good to consider it just a matter of recompiling, there can be much more work than this required to make the change correctly.

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Possibly true Aurelien; however, PMDG has been anticipating the migration to 64b for a long time and I assume they built the ability to target either 32b or 64b right into the structure of their code.  I do not speak for PMDG, but I am confident that their products don't need much more than recompiling for a 64b P3D as long as there are not major changes to some basic stuff like the SDK and the flight dynamics engine.  They probably have more work in the queue based on known bugs and product improvement than the switch to 64b.

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The fact that they've updated "some" navdata to 2015 is troubling.  Why not all of it? Why not incorporate a method to update it so ATC can tie into it?  I mean, I realize the navdata in FS is kinda irrelevant in some ways, but airport changes, ILS frequencies, VORs, magdecs, and other things would be nice to change.  It's gonna be 1.5 year out of date upon release.  And while I get that ILS, VORs and other things don't change too often, it would be nice to have an updated database.  It essentially reveals that they're sending out an updated FSX with 64-bit and Orbx scenery.  Maybe I'm wrong, and I'd sure like to be, but it's a little questionable.  

I wonder if ATC was even enhanced?  With the right amount of effort, updated navdata and proper ATC could be implemented and seriously change the game.  The scenery can always be a third party option, along with clouds, skies and traffic.  Same with planes really.  Nothing wrong with including decent planes but most of us don't play with them.  

It's so frustrating that ATC and other items could really be improved big time.  I have proposed methods on dealing with ATC and AI but no one listens.  The default ATC voices are much better than the third party add ons.  I don't care what anyone says.  So you have navdata, which we should be able to update at least quarterly, why not allow us to plug in a DP and STAR with our planned route and give options to enter altitudes?  Say at MARIO waypoint you need to be at 10,000 on descent.  So give us an option to enter 10,000 feet and ATC would simply say "...descend to 10,000 at MARIO (phonetically pronounced who cares)" or "...crossing MARIO at 10,000". Ect.  Then assign us an approach that truly uses the navdata that has been there since FS9 for descent. If the fix is coded for AT OR ABOVE 4000, then let us get down in time.  Instead you have to pick an approach and pray it gives you time to descend and slow down.  Usually it doesn't.  Or even give the option to descend when you need to if the simulator can't figure out the timing based on speed and current altitude.  RC had some minor implementations of what I suggested but it never really worked well imo.  I just think letting us plug in a route and alter the altitudes with some consideration to speed and altitude would work.  Throw in some unplanned turns for traffic or whatever and it would be much more immersive.  I'm sorry but with all the software out there and from what I have seen, it can be done.  If an option to choose an airspeed in knots and swept back wing was a check box to give earlier descent times, it would also help.  We need a 4:1 ratio anyhow since that's truly what most modern jets are using.  I've talked to pilots of jets with winglets and difficulty slowing, and they almost all say that it's so much more challenging and that a 4:1 ratio trumps the old 3:1 ratio for descent.  

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On 5/3/2017 at 5:16 PM, rjfry said:

Well if 64bit means no PMDG add-ons bad news for P3Dv4 if its 64bit.

Ray Fry.

In the future, all sims will most likely become 64 bit (in fact once FSW comes out that means all three of the major sims will be 64 bit), so this is unlikely. My question was mainly about when we can expect to hear about PMDG's plans, and if they are planning to update their current products for 64 bit or if it will be future releases only.

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14 hours ago, Orlaam said:

I wonder if ATC was even enhanced?  With the right amount of effort, updated navdata and proper ATC could be implemented and seriously change the game.  The scenery can always be a third party option, along with clouds, skies and traffic.  Same with planes really.  Nothing wrong with including decent planes but most of us don't play with them.  

It sounds like you might have, but have you tried ProATC/x recently? It offers at least some of the features you have been talking about. Their latest versions have really improved a lot. I fly with it pretty frequently.

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UPDATE: PMDG just posted the following to their Facebook page:

Quote

 

Captains,

There is an ancient curse that occasionally comes to mind: "May you live in interesting times."

As a software developer and a pilot, I am a big fan of boredom. Boredom means everything is stable. To my point of view, stable is good.

A few years ago the sim world went into panic when Microsoft killed off their flight simulation development and walked away from the market. Those of you who have been here a while will recall that I have been quite vocal in my musing that this was a good thing, as it would open the door to newer ideas and innovation and might signal a renewal of the hobby after a period of pain. I have continued to support this point of view- and I think 2017 will be the year that finally begins to see modern software and hardware architecture bringing joy to simmers.

We are coming out of a period of unprecedented platform stability. A full decade with a single platform has allowed developers to innovate and build capability without having to re-learn the process every two years as we used to do "back in the day."

With that in mind- we are starting to get quite a few folks asking questions about future platforms so I wanted to put a bit of information out to you in order to ease any concerns you might have about our plans for the future:

Prepar3D v4:

There is quite a bit of "noise" in the community, none of which has been confirmed, indicating that Lockheed Martin is working on the next iteration of Prepar3D. For our P3D customers, please know that our long-standing policy has been that we intend to support our existing products through P3D v4 "at least." This is included in the purchase you have already made and will not require further costs. It is reasonable to expect that a new version will include new features, and we expect that we will adopt those that make sense and roll them out using the micro-update process we have been developing over the past couple of years.

All of this is just a re-statement of the policy we announced in January 2015 when we launched our first products for Prepar3D- nothing has changed.

Dovetail Games' Flight Sim World:

A number of folks have been wondering what our official position is with regard to the recently announced Dovetail Games' Flight Sim World package. I wanted to summarize our thoughts in hopes that it will prevent some of the uninformed conjecture that has started up on the topic.

Summary: We are very excited to see Dovetail's work beginning to bear fruit and we look forward to learning more. At this juncture it is really not a simple task to answer the many questions being asked about whether or not PMDG will support the platform, whether our existing product line can be converted to FSW, etc etc. The bottom line is that we don't know much of anything about the platform.

For a period we were in fairly regular communication with DTG regarding their plans and progress, but that communication dried up shortly after we declined to offer our product line via the DTG controlled Steam channel for FSX-Steam Edition, and we haven't really heard much of anything from them since that time. We received a few email announcing staff changes, but we received no replies to our ongoing outreach effort, so at the moment when I look at the planning board for the next year, I see only a question mark next to the DTG platform.

We are simply waiting to hear, and remaining open minded.

With that said, I can boil the whole thing down pretty easily: Once we have a platform and an SDK and some marketing direction from DTG to work with, we will make a business decision: If the platform is capable of supporting highly complex simulations of modern airliners (we presume it will) and if we are able to market our products through our existing channels then there is a high degree of certainty that we will support it. If the market will require participation through a market controlled channel such as steam, the likelihood of our support diminishes rather significantly depending upon the costs of doing business through that channel.

As for whether our products can be ported to their new platform- it is safe to presume that they can... After all- it is just software. We do not doubt that it will require some dedicated development work and that is why we have the big question mark next to DTG on the planning board... We know work will be required, but we don't know when or how much to plan...

So stay tuned...

In the mean time, work progresses on the nearly completed PMDG DC-6 Cloudmaster for FSX and P3D, and the PMDG 747-8 Queen of the Skies II for both FSX and P3D is well on it's way to testing. We will likely have another couple of updates for the 747-400 very shortly, as we have been continuing to chip away at open items as we move the 747-8 down the assembly line.

As you can imagine, adding in all of the 747-8 functionality has created a bit of chaos in the code base, which has slowed down the update cycle for the 744, but I think we are through the worst of it now. (touch wood, hold thumbs, cross fingers and toes, etc...)

These may not be "interesting" times, but they are darned exciting!

Oh and wait until you see what else we are working on.

 

 

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3 hours ago, cleonpack93 said:

It sounds like you might have, but have you tried ProATC/x recently? It offers at least some of the features you have been talking about. Their latest versions have really improved a lot. I fly with it pretty frequently.

The voices I've heard for that negate any positive abilities the program carries with it.  :-/

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3 hours ago, cleonpack93 said:

UPDATE: PMDG just posted the following to their Facebook page:

 

Connor,

Actually, I posted it here in the forum first.  :laugh:

About a day after you started this thread...  Figured it was better to do a global reply than answer in thread since you were just one of many asking the same questions.  Hope that answered the points you were wondering about?

 

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On 5/5/2017 at 4:00 PM, rsrandazzo said:

Connor,

Actually, I posted it here in the forum first.  :laugh:

About a day after you started this thread...  Figured it was better to do a global reply than answer in thread since you were just one of many asking the same questions.  Hope that answered the points you were wondering about?

 

It certainly did. Appreciate your work and your openness! Thanks for being one of the best developers in the flight sim world.

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I feel that some of the success of failure of DTS will rely on the quality of their SDK they offer.   A bad or non-existent Source Development Kit can make entry into a new sim a bear of a challenge.

I suppose, with so many FSX based sims out there now, why we need yet another one (FSX boxed / FSX Steam, Prepar3D / ESP / and now DTS).   While I'm no X-Plane Fan (and yes, purchased it several times over the years and even downloaded the free trial version of 11), I'd love to see some company out there with experience or interest in modeling a complete "Earth-Simulator", with the ability to fly an incredibly modeled airliner through this perfection of a mathematical simulation.  It all begins with a simulation of the Earth, and the company that pulls that off will have the best Flight Simulator, hands down.  But, it's a darn tall order.

Mark Trainer

 

 

 

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Hello! Currently FSW SDK is avalable and there are no problems to sell DLCs in not-steam markets. Are any news from PMDG regarding FSW support?

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