RAAS for P3D V4 (64 Bit) Released!

[markdf 84]

1 hour ago, ESzczesniak said:

I fully support Mr. York and will purchase this new 64 bit RAAS program (and many other FS2Crews).  If everyone paid a full price for the new P3Dv4 simulator, rather than an upgrade, why do you feel entitled to upgrade pricing for add-ons?  This is a new simulator.  I could understand this some for P3D v1-3 that were pretty similar, but 64 bit is a whole new world and new code required.  I'm very grateful that many of the upgrades have been free so far, but I was not expecting that.  And with the exception of PMDG, they're almost all scenery.  Textures files don't really change in 64 bit...gauge coding does a lot.  Take a look at the large number of things that aren't out yet.  FSL A320, Majestic Dash 8, VRS Superbug, etc.  A lot of them have posted that they are contemplating a charge for the new versions.  This isn't a simple copy a paste this time with the 64 bit upgrade. 

If money is the issue, then I hate to be blunt, but it will be cheapest to stick with the current version of P3D/FSX you already own. 

Converting code to compile in a 64bit environment can throw up issues and obstacles I accept, but it also doesn't require the complete re-write from scratch that you seem to think it does - I could see some of the FS2Crew products being more complex to adapt, but given that RAAS reads it's data from a csv file on disk, rather than through direct communication with the simulator to get that information (the heavy lifting of which is already performed by MakeRunways) and then compares that against user location + direction, I'd question the decision to charge full price for it.

One of the biggest issues with going to 64 from 32 comes from code that makes assumptions about the size of various data types in memory rather than verifying it at runtime, which really from an application developers perspective, is probably the largest change.  Well written code for smaller programs should actually port reasonably easily, which is why we're already seeing such a large number of compatible applications this soon after launch.  Language/syntax doesn't change between 32 and 64bit, and code that obeys the industry standards should be valid on either architecture. (Barring quirks in P3D's APIs, because obviously they play a role in this, whilst I'm a developer myself I don't develop for P3D. I do however maintain a codebase across three different CPU architectures, two 32bit based + one 64bit on an ongoing basis)

Contrary to popular belief, it *is* possible for 64 and 32 bit processes to communicate, which is why even un-maintained utilities like Radar Contact (which uses the same source data from MakeRunways as RAAS) can still provide working ATC services under P3Dv4.  Another fact correction - FSLabs have already announced that they will not be charging for the A320 update, they considered it and decided against it.  Aerosoft are charging for the Airbuses, but not because of the change to 64bit, but because the update is also going to represent a significant improvement to the feature set and performance, bringing it up to date with their A330 project's code. (And even with that, they're only charging an upgrade - not a full re-purchase)

Regardless, for me this debate is immaterial - as I posted above, the use of PayPal as the sole processor rules me out of being able to use the 5EUR discount voucher for existing owners, and I won't pay more than everyone else elsewhere on principle. I'm not saying it should be free, and I would pay happily, but only the same price as other customers.

 

Edit: In before someone says "Why don't you do it then?" - draft an NDA, make me a defacto  temporary (unpaid) employee and I'll happily take a leave from my day job to contribute to the conversion.

[swiesma 625]

Whining.... like for all v4 stuff. 

I'm so tired of it. 

[markdf 84]

Deleted

Edited June 17, 2017 by markdf
Deleted, not worth engaging over

[byork 2,258]

9 hours ago, Raven9000 said:

I think he probably means the "Captain's Set"

No, a "locked" version of RAAS is shipped with the PMDG 777 and 747.  It comes with the aircraft.

[MarkW 1,490]

As much as I didn't like it perhaps PMDG, A2A and Flight1 with the GTN were smart to price P3D as a completely new product and then offer v4 upgrade for free.  At some point a developer has to make money and cannot live on initial revenue forever when they have to recompile and program old releases. When v4 was releases I kind of estimated it may cost a grand to upgrade a bunch of things but that money will go at least two years so it was worth it to me to leave 32 bit behind forever.   Bryan is choosing the new charge now and it's really Understandable.  

[markdf 84]

8 minutes ago, MarkW said:

As much as I didn't like it perhaps PMDG, A2A and Flight1 with the GTN were smart to price P3D as a completely new product and then offer v4 upgrade for free.  At some point a developer has to make money and cannot live on initial revenue forever when they have to recompile and program old releases. When v4 was releases I kind of estimated it may cost a grand to upgrade a bunch of things but that money will go at least two years so it was worth it to me to leave 32 bit behind forever.   Bryan is choosing the new charge now and it's really Understandable.  

I don't dispute any of your points - but I am of the opinion that when it does come to buying updated licenses, the pricing needs to be structured in a way that doesn't alienate existing customers either.

In the case of RAAS I think part of the issue is that agreeing to bundle it with pretty much all of the most popular tubeliners has undermined the value of the full unlocked version for a lot of customers, which makes a full price rebuy hard to swallow. (I don't think there were any bundled "locked" copies when I first bought my copy of it.) In effect it now has to compete against the lighter version of itself for a place in people's budgets.  I do however agree that for an addon which has spanned from FS9 to P3Dv3, it's completely reasonable for there to be a charge.

As I posted above, with some products like the NGX however, more care needs to be applied to the pricing which takes into account that for some customers this will be the third version of FS2Crew they've purchased for the same base aircraft - and the price charged should reflect that purchase history. (Even though I don't dispute that a charge is reasonable, it needs to be a reasonable charge)

I also feel that if a lower introductory price is made (like the 5EUR rebate) then it should be evenly applied across all customers, regardless of where and how they purchase. As it stands, as an existing customer I'll still end up paying more than those who are *not* blocked by PayPal.

[Raven9000 272]

43 minutes ago, byork said:

No, a "locked" version of RAAS is shipped with the PMDG 777 and 747.  It comes with the aircraft.

Yeah, I know that. But since he just said "777 product" I thought he was talking about YOUR 777 product, and the captain's set which includes the full unlocked one.

[MarkW 1,490]

@markdf there has to be a way to get your PayPal issue sorted out.  

[markdf 84]

1 hour ago, MarkW said:

@markdf there has to be a way to get your PayPal issue sorted out.  

Guessing you've never been on the wrong side of PayPal.  I wasted months fighting with them over this.  Once they've decided they don't want you, nobody will talk to you, there's no official reason ever given in writing (I got the ID thing out of them after three hours on the phone, but they clammed up immediately afterwards.) There's no appeals process or any way to put a case forwards, the entire process happens behind closed doors with no end user interaction.  The only good thing is that I had zero funds in my PayPal account when they locked it down, or I wouldn't have seen that for a minimum of six months.

Once they blacklist you, they use your identity documents/account information to make sure that any account you try and open with them in future will be automatically picked up and closed, and likewise if you attempt to make a card payment without being logged in - I got away with it 3 or so times, now it'll just decline. I'd love to have resolved the issue, but I've exhausted every avenue at my disposal, so now I'm forced to avoid PayPal only services/stores.  For the most part, I've succeeded in working around it, or finding alternatives - sadly FS2Crew is one of the few places without a second option. If Brian has an alternative way to receive money from me then I'll be more than happy to continue being a loyal customer.

[pete_auau 1,153]

21 minutes ago, markdf said:

sadly FS2Crew is one of the few places without a second option. If Brian has an alternative way to receive money from me then I'll be more than happy to continue being a loyal customer.

Confused  here  you say  fscrew  hasn't  a  second option, I'am  certain  that  you  can use  credit  card  or  a  debit  card   since  thats  all i have  been  using  is  my credit  card  and  Bryan  has  already  stated  this  in a  earlier post in this  thread

[markdf 84]

5 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

Confused  here  you say  fscrew  hasn't  a  second option, I'am  certain  that  you  can use  credit  card  or  a  debit  card   since  thats  all i have  been  using  is  my credit  card  and  Bryan  has  already  stated  this  in a  earlier post in this  thread

As I'm getting tired of repeating - The credit/debit card processing is still handled via PayPal, and if you read the whole post you quoted, you'll see that I stated that they will not process any of my cards even through that system.

See screenshot here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhes6a03v203a1v/Screenshot 2017-06-18 05.53.36.png?dl=0

Who does it say is handling the payment?

[pete_auau 1,153]

1 minute ago, markdf said:

As I'm getting tired of repeating - The credit/debit card processing is still handled via PayPal, and if you read the whole post you quoted, you'll see that I stated that they will not process any of my cards even through that system.

ok   as  i said  in my i  was  confused  thought  it  was  completely  seperate using paypal  and using   your  credit  card

[markdf 84]

Nope, sadly it's not - and once you're blacklisted, you're really bloomin blacklisted.  They make it literally impossible to ever touch their services or any site handled by them again.  They're a very dirty company when it suits them.

I mean, possibly if I move house, change my name, and get a new passport, I *might* get away with it, but other than that I've got no chance

[byork 2,258]

If any of you have PayPal issues, send me a Support Ticket via www.fs2crew.com

We have a back-up method for cases like this.

Best,

 

[nywingrider 0]

Purchased 64 bit version.... Had to un-install as got black screen in p3dv4... Any ideas? After RAAS un-install p3dv4 works perfectly....