Wothan

AFE causes stutter

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First of all - Thanks for a great Aircraft.

 

But I found that having ADE set to "Cruise" causes heavy stutter - Turning off the AFE brings smooth flight back again.

I wonder if it is caused by the AFE constantly overloading the sim with input commands, maybe fighting some of my axis'.

 

Note that I use CH-Products Fighterstick, Throttle Quadrant and Rudder pedals.

 

Aileron, Elevator, Rudder, Left/Right Brakes are setup in FSUIPC with "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration".

Throttle 1-4, Propeller ser and Steering Tiller are setup in FSUIPC with "Send to FS as normal axis".

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1 hour ago, Wothan said:

Throttle 1-4, Propeller ser and Steering Tiller are setup in FSUIPC with "Send to FS as normal axis".

Temporarily place the FSUIPC.ini somewhere other than the <sim root>\Modules folder. This may fix the issue, as the throttle axis may be in conflict.

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17 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Temporarily place the FSUIPC.ini somewhere other than the <sim root>\Modules folder. This may fix the issue, as the throttle axis may be in conflict.

Hmmm

 

That leaves me with no control, since all P3D controls are disabled in the P3D controls setup and be set via FSUIPC instead.

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6 minutes ago, Wothan said:

That leaves me with no control, since all P3D controls are disabled in the P3D controls setup and be set via FSUIPC instead.

Well, there's the problem.

Assign in the sim. Process in FSUIPC. It won't compromise your control authority if you do it this way.

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6 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Well, there's the problem.

Assign in the sim. Process in FSUIPC. It won't compromise your control authority if you do it this way.

Sorry, but it seems You don´t qute know how FSUIPC controler calibration work.

The main reason for using FSUIPC is to have individual controller setups for each aircraft. i.e I have...

- one for the 737NGX (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-2 = Throttle 1+2, axis 3-4 unassigned, and axis 5-6 = Speedbrakes+Steering tiller)

- one for the 747-400 (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-4 = Throttle 1-4, axis 5-6 = Speedbrakes+Steering tiller)

- one for Aerosoft Twin Otter (Throttle quadrant axis 1-2 = Power lever 1+2, Axis 3-4 = Prop lever, axis 5-6 = Condition lever)

-one for the DC-6B (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-4 = Throttle 1-4, axis 5-6 = Prop RPM+Steering tiller)

 

Assigning any of these axis' within P3D's controller setup will jeopardize these setups and is not the way FSUIPC should be used.

This has worked so far without any issues with all my other addons (PMDG, A2A, Aerosoft Twin Otter / Bronco etc., but according to You, this is not supported by the DC-6B and renders the use of FSUIPC useless.

The entire concept of using FSUIPC is that using it means that You don´t have to change controller setups each time You select an aircaft that requires different setup - FSUIPC does this for You behind the scene.

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33 minutes ago, Wothan said:

Sorry, but it seems You don´t qute know how FSUIPC controler calibration work.

The main reason for using FSUIPC is to have individual controller setups for each aircraft. i.e I have...

- one for the 737NGX (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-2 = Throttle 1+2, axis 3-4 unassigned, and axis 5-6 = Speedbrakes+Steering tiller)

- one for the 747-400 (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-4 = Throttle 1-4, axis 5-6 = Speedbrakes+Steering tiller)

- one for Aerosoft Twin Otter (Throttle quadrant axis 1-2 = Power lever 1+2, Axis 3-4 = Prop lever, axis 5-6 = Condition lever)

-one for the DC-6B (Throttle Quadrant axis 1-4 = Throttle 1-4, axis 5-6 = Prop RPM+Steering tiller)

 

Assigning any of these axis' within P3D's controller setup will jeopardize these setups and is not the way FSUIPC should be used.

This has worked so far without any issues with all my other addons (PMDG, A2A, Aerosoft Twin Otter / Bronco etc., but according to You, this is not supported by the DC-6B and renders the use of FSUIPC useless.

The entire concept of using FSUIPC is that using it means that You don´t have to change controller setups each time You select an aircaft that requires different setup - FSUIPC does this for You behind the scene.

I'll start by saying that PMDG will know a LOT more about FSUIPC than you do, so I can guarantee you that they know exactly how it works.

To the rest of your post, PMDG have always said to assign your controllers in the sim, then process the calibration through FSUIPC. If you don't believe me go back and read every intro manual from the NGX, 777, 747 and now DC-6. All will say the same thing, assign in the sim, process in FSUIPC.

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1 hour ago, PMDG777 said:

I'll start by saying that PMDG will know a LOT more about FSUIPC than you do, so I can guarantee you that they know exactly how it works.

To the rest of your post, PMDG have always said to assign your controllers in the sim, then process the calibration through FSUIPC. If you don't believe me go back and read every intro manual from the NGX, 777, 747 and now DC-6. All will say the same thing, assign in the sim, process in FSUIPC.

How do You know what I know about FSUIPC being a former FS developer too ?

Your are right about the various PMDG manuals, but until now the way I have used FSUIPC and at the same disabled FSX/P3D controller assignments has worked flawless with every other addon, including all A2A aircraft - also PMDG 737NGX-6/7/8/900, 777-2/300 and 747-400 QOTS II.

I will experiment further later today with various controller setups, including vanilla P3D V3 Controller assignments (disabling FSUIPC).

 

Please don´t treat as an word not allowed - I might have been in to FS longer than most other here and know most in and outs of FSX/P3D and PMDG are neither God's or faultless either, so there might be something to look at - I just wanted to report my findings !!

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5 minutes ago, Wothan said:

How do You know what I know about FSUIPC being a former FS developer too ?

Of course I don't know this at all, but generally when people say "I know how ... works", they don't have a clue, or they don't know enough to say PMDG are right or wrong. Apologies if it came across as saying you didn't know anything.

5 minutes ago, Wothan said:

Your are right about the various PMDG manuals, but until now the way I have used FSUIPC and at the same disabled FSX/P3D controller assignments has worked flawless with every other addon, including all A2A aircraft - also PMDG 737NGX-6/7/8/900, 777-2/300 and 747-400 QOTS II.

I said in another post, and I'll say it here. Something working in the past is not confirmation that it will continue to work in the future. It's a common trap that people fall into (and has been the cause of a number of major incidents in the world).

5 minutes ago, Wothan said:

I will experiment further later today with various controller setups, including vanilla P3D V3 Controller assignments (disabling FSUIPC).

 

Please don´t treat as an word not allowed - I might have been in to FS longer than most other here and know most in and outs of FSX/P3D and PMDG are neither God's or faultless either, so there might be something to look at - I just wanted to report my findings !!

Apologies again, I did not mean to downplay your knowledge. Please share your findings with us :)

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5 hours ago, Wothan said:

Sorry, but it seems You don´t qute know how FSUIPC controler calibration work.

I know precisely how it works. You listed a very highly specific case that very few people use right after saying that on an assumption that it was somehow obvious that it was clear from that outset that what you were doing was common and known to us here. That wasn't the case (you never stated it, ergo we cannot assume it). The fact that you then got upset at Chris for making a similar assumption is kind of the icing on the cake, really.

If you want people to be on the same page as you, then you need to state things, otherwise assumptions are made, particularly when you post in a forum about having problems. If we assumed everyone was a developer we would skip over the simple things that may seem obvious, and then nothing would get solved.

As a developer, you should know this...

3 hours ago, Wothan said:

How do You know what I know about FSUIPC being a former FS developer too ?

As I stated, if you don't make things clear, we can't factor that in.

You never said what your experience level was, so we literally have to assume it's 'none'. A developer should know this.

 

 

Anyway...regardless...I'm in here in an attempt to troubleshoot an issue. Again, as a developer, I think you should be able to understand this, and that, when you're requesting help, it's best to follow along. Again, as a developer, you should be aware that you can pull the FSUIPC.ini out of the modules folder temporarily to satisfy my request.

So...give that a shot for me, please?

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I´m very sorry to see this thread go on this detour - that was never my intend...

I simply opened this thread cause I had an issue and a possible cause.

Kyle told me to disable FSUIPC inorder to bugtrack the issue. He also told that for PMDG products, controller axis' beter are assigned through P3D controller setup and then processed by FSUIPC.

I only pointed out that doing this means that FSUIPC then not can be used for what most people use it for - automatically change of profiles for aircraft where diferent setups are wanted.

This will not work if axis' are assigned through P3D controll setup

Right from Peter Dowsons own mouth (post): "Yes, but don't enable controllers in P3D. Just assign always in FSUIPC. Assign to "FS control" not direct to FSUIPC calibration, and don't try calibrating in FSUIPC -- it's the calibration which causes the controls to miss being seen by the Airbus, or worse being seen twice with differing values.

Assigning to the FS control in FSUIPC is identical in effect to assigning to the same in P3D itself."

That's why I founbd that Kyle did not fully understand why people like FSUIPC.

 

When Chris then jumped in and told that PMDG know more about FSUIPC than I - Then I think I´m rightfull to ask - "How can he know"

PMDG are really good - but not God's and there migh be people out there who might know more than PMDG about FSUIPC - Who really knows ?

 

All this has nothing to do being a developer or not, but we are people out here that has used, tweaked and added stuff to the various Flight sims before PMDG became a name in this business and there might be (not saying it´s me), people with greater knowldege in certain areas than PMDG developers.

 

In the end I do not even know if FSUIPC is the culprit for the stutters when AFE is turned on - I just found it to be very possible cause for it.

 

Normally I like the way this forum is run, but this time I did not find it very contructive - be carfull not to climb to high up on a Pedstal and look down on people You don´t know and assume they are less knowledgable.

 

For sure I will report my findings and possible fix inorder to help my fellow Flight Simmers, should they have similar issues.

 

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I look forward to reading your findings as I'm on the verge of  buying this addon however after reading this it has raised a bit of concern because my controls are setup exactly as yours are. I've always used FSUIPC like that and never had any problems with any of the other PMDG products.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Wothan said:

In the end I do not even know if FSUIPC is the culprit for the stutters when AFE is turned on - I just found it to be very possible cause for it.

If this can be established then PMDG might be able to accommodate FSUIPC users with modifications to the AFE.  Personally, I do not find it a problem to change controller profiles in P3D because it only takes 3 sec.  I guess FSUIPC automatically doing it is more along the lines of it's how you like to do it.  Regardless, PMDG gets a large percentage of support tickets due to an errant FSUIPC setup which explains their general attitude towards FSUIPC.  Hope you can verify the hypothesis, it certainly has merit.

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14 minutes ago, downscc said:

Personally, I do not find it a problem to change controller profiles in P3D because it only takes 3 sec. 

Quick question - are you referring to the P3D controller profiles feature, or to changing the axis assignments "by hand" in the P3D buttons/axes page before flying?  Reason I ask is that this thread has me thinking again about my ongoing love/hate relationship with FSUIPC - love the custom profiles, hate the wonkiness, especially with high-end add-ons - and if the native controller profiles are now a viable option, I'd think about using them.  The last time I checked - a couple of years ago - there were issues with assignments getting lost when switching from one P3D controller profile to another.  Wondering if that's still the case.  Thanks in advance for any light you can shed.

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1 hour ago, JRS182 said:

I look forward to reading your findings as I'm on the verge of  buying this addon however after reading this it has raised a bit of concern because my controls are setup exactly as yours are. I've always used FSUIPC like that and never had any problems with any of the other PMDG products.

 

You probably won´t have trounles, it´s only when using the AFE that I got this issue and without AFE I can perfectly use FSUIPC for setting up my controllers with all controller inputs disabled in P3D.

Only one thing is important - DON'T calibrate the inputs in FSUIPC, and You can NOT use: "Send direct for FSUIPC Calibration"

But use instead: "Send to FS as normal Axis" - assign Throttles to: "Axis Throttle (N) Set", which according to the FSUIPC developer Peter Dowson does exact the same as using the P3D Controller assigments, but gives You the option to use seperate setups for different aircraft.

 

What I do see with AFE ON, is that the mouse cursor blinks 5 times per second, indicating that inputs from the AFE are done that often.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Quick question - are you referring to the P3D controller profiles feature, or to changing the axis assignments "by hand" in the P3D buttons/axes page before flying?

The P3D controller  EXPORT and IMPORT feature is specifically what I am referring to.  For example, I have three different controls profiles saved, one for twin jets, one for DC6 and one default.  The default and DC6 are similar with the biggest difference being my slider axis is either assigned to speedbrakes for jets or prop pitch for the DC6.  My controller is a Thrustmaster Warthog, which has two throttles.  I played with trying to assign two engines to each throttle, useful for 747 and DC6, but found that to use one axis required the use of all axis and I abandoned my effort perhaps prematurely.  I like to keep it simple.

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3 hours ago, downscc said:

The P3D controller  EXPORT and IMPORT feature is specifically what I am referring to. 

Ah, that's excellent news.  I'm going to give that a try.  Have never been able to get FSUIPC to play well using the "send to FS as normal axis" parameters - mixture won't behave properly even on P3D4 default aircraft - so that's really not an option.

Does P3D controller import/export allow the use of different controllers (such as yoke and joystick)?  Or would that be pushing the limit?  OK if so - I agree completely with you about keeping it simple, and if I have to throw a controller overboard, I will.  I'll start experimenting with it now.  Thanks for opening the door.

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1 minute ago, Alan_A said:

mixture won't behave properly even on P3D4 default

Please note that mixture for the DC6 is not an axis.  Each mixture has three values:  Auto Rich, Auto Lean and Off.... don't even try assigning a mixture axis.

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5 minutes ago, downscc said:

Please note that mixture for the DC6 is not an axis. 

Thanks, understood.  I wasn't clear - I was referring to past problems I've had, not to anything specific to the DC-6.  Clearly PMDG is handling mixture differently than A2A (in the Connie, Strat and B-17) and the Manfred Jahn team (in the C-47 v3) - in all those cases, Auto Rich, Auto Lean and Cutoff are ranges within an axis.  The levers "snap to" the detent when they're within range.  Had originally been expecting something similar for the DC-6 but if not, then not.  I'll make sure there's no mixture axis in the DC-6 profile.

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So ... to pick up on my initial issue with AFE causing stutter in "Cruise" mode.....

I now tried to disable FSUIPC all together and set all axis and buttons via P3D's own controller setup menu, I still get stutter, so something in AFE "Cruise" mode seems to cause this, and it seems not to be FSUIPC.

Next thing,which I cannot detect, is if it´s casued by the AFE to "flood" P3D with input commands. The stutter does not start before being in "Cruise" mod for a couple of minutes, but thereafter it will happen right after having turned "Cruise" mode off and then on again.

Do others see this too - or is it "just" me ?

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I also have the same issue with the stuttering. It seems to happen anytime I enable the AFE for anything. I have FSUIPC but don't have anything programmed on it. Bought it years ago but don't really use it.

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Same here. I have no calibrations made via FSUIPC, but everytime i start AFE i've got this stutters... not only the Mouse Cursor, every Gauge flashs 5 time/sec...

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12 minutes ago, cosnowboarder_777 said:

Hi guys, any update on this?

In another thread, somebody solved it by undocking the green AFE bar that says what step he's at. I think also disabling this green message bar also worked.

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Tried, that, didn't seem to help all that much. Got so bad at one point, FSX ended up crashing. This is definitely a show stopper for me.

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8 hours ago, cosnowboarder_777 said:

Tried, that, didn't seem to help all that much. Got so bad at one point, FSX ended up crashing. This is definitely a show stopper for me.

Start > type "view all problem" and select View All Problem Reports > find FSX > find the latest crash > post the crash report here.

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