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Muskoka

Sim world has been transformed....

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Received my Rift bundle yesterday (3 days from order to my door, Bestbuy Canada) and immediately purchased Flyinside for Xplane, one word....wow, ok, maybe a few more. Visuals are nice, not great, but I knew that going in. But, graphics aside, the sensation you get/feel in all aspects of flight is just stunning. There's no describing the feeling really, you need to experience it. Like others have said, I'd have a real tough time going back to a 2d world, the immersion is that impressive. Touch controllers are working great, but with my yoke, rudder pedals, and the mouse very handy, I kinda prefer the blue dot interaction, it works very well. I've just been flying the default 172, but jumped into the Zibo modded 738 for a peek, and it was a OMG moment, I felt like I was in the real thing. Tilt your head up and there's the whole overhead panel, click away, fantastic. Ok, enough, back to flying.

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You have drank the koolaid there is no going back. I laugh at people who want to wait for improved resolution. Now go try dcs world and prepare for awesomeness (is that even a word)

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I totally agree that it is difficult to go back to 2D as well. And the sensation of flight is there - no exaggeration, my ears popped a couple days ago on descent from 4500 to 1500 flying in AF2 from KISP to KTEB in the 172. I thought that the sensation of motion would "wear off" after a couple weeks, but it has not worn off at all for me. I'm loving it.

Looking forward to improvements in P3Dv4 VR and getting a new custom Jetline power PC.   

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It´s so cool to read about first VR experiences in flight simulators. I remember my first time, and that was back at oculus DK2. Had my mouth open for days, and there were so few people with DK2 and even less passionate of simming that when I tried to explain how it felt nobody took me seriously.

And last night I flew from Mykonos to Sanorini (greek islands), and right after landing with my phenom 300, GTN750 on it, all the flightdeck light up I thought "really I don´t understand how someone can still prefer 2D".

 

Cheers

 

Carlos

 

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3 hours ago, AccusedChip said:

You have drank the koolaid there is no going back. I laugh at people who want to wait for improved resolution. Now go try dcs world and prepare for awesomeness (is that even a word)

I purchased an OR in January. Used it over 4 months in P3D, XP with Flyinside, DCS and Aerofly 2. It was Horrible and I sold it. I lough at people who tell others its good! Yeah good if you like poor resolution and don't like to read the instruments. I will not be touching another VR unit until at least the 3rd generation is out or I read reports the the displays have been vastly improved. 

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30 minutes ago, chass32 said:

.....I thought "really I don´t understand how someone can still prefer 2D".

Cheers

Carlos

 

That's because you sim with mouse and keyboard (perhaps in addition to a couple of axes controllers). VR is extremely limiting if you have a cockpit or more complex hardware setups. Switches and knobs are "real" reality not virtual reality.

No offense, but until you have used a well done simpit with projectors, or best, a full motion simulator, I will say..."I really don't understand the attraction of having to wear vision blocking goggles and vertigo inducing displays."

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7 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

No offense, but until you have used a well done simpit with projectors, or best, a full motion simulator, I will say..."I really don't understand the attraction of having to wear vision blocking goggles and vertigo inducing displays."

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations! I think some will not see validity on VR, but I also think that many more will be joining the club soon. Time will tell!

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5 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

That's because you sim with mouse and keyboard (perhaps in addition to a couple of axes controllers). VR is extremely limiting if you have a cockpit or more complex hardware setups. Switches and knobs are "real" reality not virtual reality.

I think it's probably going to be either-or.  Either you fly with whatever level of simpit you have, which may be little more than a joystick and keyboard, or you fly VR which prevents the use of most anything more than yoke, pedals and throttle...you have to click "inside" without any other hardware.  The VR is appealing because you see everything with a turn of your head.  But a real quality simpit is great too since it's tactil, feels real, reduces what has to be rendered, etc.  I think both experiences could be pretty amazing.  Personally, I think a simpit would be cooler but VR would be cheaper and more flexible since you could fly more aircraft. 

And there's people like me, sitting in the middle of the two choices...not a lame setup but not doing VR either.  :)

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3 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations! I think some will not see validity on VR, but I also think that many more will be joining the club soon. Time will tell!

Sure, not my intent to diminish the use or attraction to VR. The human brain is uniquely wired to process 3D visual data. My intent was to illustrate there are other perspectives and VR is not the end all experience, at least in its current form. Microsoft has an augmented VR platform in the works that would work great with simpit, for example.

My unique qualifications for this discussion:

1) 20 years in aerial photogrammetry, primarily in stereo-mapping. See: "stereoplotter operator". Most everyday viewing aerial photographs in 3D and making very precise measurements from them for 2 decades

2) 23 years rock climbing and giving near a hundred people their first rock climbing experience. If you understand induced vertigo, you will know that it is caused by the discrepancy between what the inner ear is telling the brain and what the eyes are telling the brain. This most certainly applies to current VR technology.

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30 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

2) 23 years rock climbing and giving near a hundred people their first rock climbing experience. If you understand induced vertigo, you will know that it is caused by the discrepancy between what the inner ear is telling the brain and what the eyes are telling the brain. This most certainly applies to current VR technology.

Its great for me though that I seem to enjoy vertigo, and will happily spin and loop anything that will fly in VR while grinning broadly. 

I have decided I am a mutant. :laugh:

I love vr

 

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43 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

That's because you sim with mouse and keyboard (perhaps in addition to a couple of axes controllers). VR is extremely limiting if you have a cockpit or more complex hardware setups. Switches and knobs are "real" reality not virtual reality.

No offense, but until you have used a well done simpit with projectors, or best, a full motion simulator, I will say..."I really don't understand the attraction of having to wear vision blocking goggles and vertigo inducing displays."

No offense taken, really, we may have different points of view (as everything in life) but respect is essential and you show it. I never wanted to be disrespectful with the people that love 2D,my fault if I was, it´s just that I tend to imagine that most of them have never tried flying in VR.

Sure I have my controllers, pedals and so on, don ´t really need extra screens cause I already have them on my cockpit like the GTN 750 (I can program it without a problem in VR, so yes, I can read the gauges and panels or read perfectly every single button or knob of the pmdg without leaning a single inch). For me everything is about inmersion, feeling I´m there, inside the flightdeck wherever I look, feel the real size of a runway while landing, or even  get out of your plane to do a quick exterior inspection  and no, I can´t get that feeling with HD projectors. I´ve been Flights coordinator for an airline for more than 20 years  and I like to think that my passion for inmersion in simulators, comes from there.

It´s just a matter of time (flyinside already does that but not brilliantly for me) that VR gets more resolution so you can even check your charts in your VR flightdeck, or use knobs and button with your own hands (Xplane has an update projected for this fall with that, and the videos are very promising).

About sickness and vertigo, well I have a lot in VR, can´t use it with cars simulators, since I get sick by the second lap and experiences that makes you walk or turn, they kill me. But never had a single second of sickness or vertigo with P3D, X-plane or even DCS in VR. Don´t know the reason.

Again, sorry If I offended someone, was not my intention, but I really feel that the Flight simulator future is going to be very VR biased.

 

Cheers

 

Carlos

 

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2 minutes ago, chass32 said:

Again, sorry If I offended someone, was not my intention, but I really feel that the Flight simulator future is going to be very VR biased.

Cheers

Carlos

 

All good man. thanks for the reply.

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I was into the simpit thing for quite a while. Had a triple monitor setup for years in FSX, and recently made my own panels using Ardsim(X) / Arduino for XP 10 and 11, and used Leo Bodnars boards years before that. They worked great, and were fun to build, but the feeling(s) I'm feeling right now were not present, not even close, in a 2d simpit. To me, there's just no comparison. Now, if someone has issues with the reduced resolution of current VR, I get it, it is reduced considerably, but a 2d pit in no way immerses your senses like this VR. I've spent a lot of money over the years on boards, pots, encoders, switches, endless hours of research, and learning, but I have no problem giving it all up for this.

Just for fun, I opened the door of the default C172 in XP11 at 3000' agl and had a physical reaction (no, didn't fill my pants :blink:), but I felt something. There was a sense of fear, vulnerability maybe, a kind of wrenching in the gut. Never came close to anything like that in a 2d pit. And flying through the clouds just looks and feels totally different, everything seems faster if that makes sense,it's hard to describe, I guess folks lucky enough to fly the real thing know the feeling. This is as close as I'm ever going to get.

Just my thoughts....

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35 minutes ago, Muskoka said:

This is as close as I'm ever going to get.

Just my thoughts....

How are you reading approach charts?

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52 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

How are you reading approach charts?

I'm not. I've had to change my flying "style" for now to basically ga only, and flying in and out of local airports that I know. As was suggested above, I should be having a look at DCS, and perhaps get back into some auto racing. I have a couple of the Dreamfoil Creations helicopters for XP as well, need to fire them back up.

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4 minutes ago, Muskoka said:

I'm not. I've had to change my flying "style" for now to basically ga only, and flying in and out of local airports that I know. As was suggested above, I should be having a look at DCS, and perhaps get back into some auto racing.

Too limiting for me (a corollary of my original comments). Which experience is more limiting re: flight simulation....1) not having 3d or 2) not being able to write down an ATC clearance?

For me personally, flying "FlightSim GA" (no ATC, no C&D start, etc) is like having ice cream for supper every night. It gets old pretty quick. This was exactly my direct experience with the  current state of VR for FlightSim...initially visceral, ultimately boring because of all the limitations.

 

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I've always been one that likes all aspects / flavors that a flight simulator has to offer, and quite frequently bounce back and forth depending on my "mood of the month". Tubeliners for a while, then ga, then helicopters for a while. Right now it's VR, who knows a month from now. It's still a great piece of kit, and especially at the price it was offered. I wouldn't have purchased it if it wasn't close to 35% off. Besides, there's a lot more to VR than flight sims, and I plan on exploring all it has to offer, it's really quite amazing. The fact it works in flight sims is a bonus. For someone approaching 60, VR has always been a dream, well it's here, and it's great.

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