dtrjones

TrueSKY 4.2 release has multiple 3D cloud layers

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I read some interesting text following an article Simul had with "80 Level" (in blue below). The next major update from Simul Software for trueSKY (4.1 -> 4.2) will introduce multiple 3D layers and do away with the 2D layers. FSW Update 8 added a single 3D layer. I believe FSW update 9 added a 2D high altitude layer (seen in Fair Weather). The current release of trueSKY is limited to 1x3D and 1x2D layer. All of that changes for 4.2 which also brings us closer to real world weather capabilities.

I'm expecting 4.2 to be integrated into FSW at some point, the formal release for this product is September 2017. Certainly a lot of what Dovetail want to achieve with FSW weather will require the 4.2 update. With 4.2 also comes a bunch of improvements - more variety and better lighting etc.

All of this wets appitite for the next FSW release - I certainly hope this has 4.2 included but if it's not in Update 11 then hopefully it should arrive soon.

"How do layers work with the clouds?

In trueSKY up till now (version 4.1) we’ve had two layers, one 2D cloud layer at high altitude (e.g. cirrus clouds), and a 3D layer. TrueSKY 4.2 (released September 2017, but available for testing now) represents a departure: now we have multiple 3D cloud layers of different types – there’s no set limit – that can overlap, covering a 600km visible volume around the camera. In 4.2, there are no 2D cloud layers – we’ve found a way to render cirrus and other thin, high-altitude cloud formations volumetrically. And instead of repeating horizontally, you can have completely different weather in different parts of your game-world: you can have a clear sky overhead, but a gathering storm in the distance. But more than that, you see that storm building as you approach it, seamlessly transitioning from one state to the other."

Reference: https://80.lv/articles/truesky-making-skies-alive/

trueSKY 4.2 teaser shot (not from FSW)

SandySutherland-UE4-Lippykid.jpg

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whatever

but fsw weather is static; that should be resolved first; than anything else  as if stay that way i will throw my fsw to the thrush

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20 minutes ago, arsenal82 said:

but fsw weather is static; that should be resolved first;

Quote: "But more than that, you see that storm building as you approach it, seamlessly transitioning from one state to the other."

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2 hours ago, arsenal82 said:

whatever

but fsw weather is static; that should be resolved first; than anything else  as if stay that way i will throw my fsw to the thrush

Actually I think 4.2 is required to make effective weather transitions, which is required for dynamic weather is it not?

I'll be happy for now to have configurable weather - but with the limited cloud layers in 4.1 that could be why they withheld the customisations.

Hopefully in the next few patches we'll see configurable weather, followed by dynamic weather, cloud shadows and eventually real world weather.

I also hope they bring back wet runways which was in FSX and improve flying through clouds. But what Dovetail and Simul are doing is very cool and I'm very much looking forward to what they can offer.

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I doubt this update isn't aimed to DTG's objective, it's just what they are talking about all this time (dynamic weather, customizable weather etc).

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2 hours ago, ca_metal said:

I doubt this update isn't aimed to DTG's objective, it's just what they are talking about all this time (dynamic weather, customizable weather etc).

If I understand you correctly you are saying the 4.2 release probably isn't pandering to Dovetails needs with respect to customisations and dynamic weather in FSW?

In my 20 years in software development thats exactly what goes on. The bigger clients can have a huge influance on the direction of software features.

If you look at Simul's previous clients - the weather is almost secondary, eye candy - but for FSW it is one of the principle parts of the simulation.

I don't doubt 4.2 would have come along anyway but I'm pretty sure Dovetail have probably influanced the priority and timing of some of the features in this new release to make sure there weather integration is more complete.

We know Dovetail are working closely with Simul Software so thats pretty standard practice and can only be a win win win for Dovetail, Simul and us the users.

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16 minutes ago, dtrjones said:

If I understand you correctly you are saying the 4.2 release probably isn't pandering to Dovetails needs with respect to customisations and dynamic weather in FSW?

I think he is saying the opposite. He is saying this update seems to be directly aligned to the objectives of DTG, who have been saying dynamic and more real weather is to come. However, for that to happen, they will of course need this multiple 3d cloud layer system in place. This should be very very interesting. 

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ca_metal, dtrjones and TheFlightSimGuy - I think you're all correct!

What we're seeing is that Simul are developing their product to meet their customer's demands, via Dovetail Games. That's right, WE are the customer. The feedback WE give to Dovetail is clearly being passed on to Simul.

As TheFlightSimGuy said, this should be very, very interesting and I for one feel very privileged to not only witness, but actually take part in this process.

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28 minutes ago, dtrjones said:

If I understand you correctly you are saying the 4.2 release probably isn't pandering to Dovetails needs with respect to customisations and dynamic weather in FSW?

In my 20 years in software development thats exactly what goes on. The bigger clients can have a huge influance on the direction of software features.

If you look at Simul's previous clients - the weather is almost secondary, eye candy - but for FSW it is one of the principle parts of the simulation.

I don't doubt 4.2 would have come along anyway but I'm pretty sure Dovetail have probably influanced the priority and timing of some of the features in this new release to make sure there weather integration is more complete.

We know Dovetail are working closely with Simul Software so thats pretty standard practice and can only be a win win win for Dovetail, Simul and us the users.

Like TheFlightSimGuy said, I was saying the opposite. I think this new version has everything to do with DTG's objectives for the weather system.

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1 hour ago, ca_metal said:

Like TheFlightSimGuy said, I was saying the opposite. I think this new version has everything to do with DTG's objectives for the weather system.

Oh that's why I caveated my response with 'If I understand you' haha! OK my bad.

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As for real world weather data if you do not have a graphics engine capable of displaying that it`s point less, that`s were trusky hopefully come in.

Ray Fry

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22 minutes ago, rjfry said:

As for real world weather data if you do not have a graphics engine capable of displaying that it`s point less, that`s were trusky hopefully come in.

Ray Fry

To be honest i do not get your point

there is quite few weather engines already out there very well capable fly real weather

infacts as is now i fly real weather in all sim without any problem

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7 minutes ago, arsenal82 said:

To be honest i do not get your point

there is quite few weather engines already out there very well capable fly real weather

infacts as is now i fly real weather in all sim without any problem

Current weather depiction in other sims is a joke compared to potential of truesky. What he is saying is that the data we get from Real World weather engines is fine, it's the depiction we have been lacking, because 2d sprites are antiquated. 

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1 hour ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

Current weather depiction in other sims is a joke compared to potential of truesky. What he is saying is that the data we get from Real World weather engines is fine, it's the depiction we have been lacking, because 2d sprites are antiquated. 

+1

I would just add due to the 32bit limitation's and hardware I don`t think it`s been possible till now to get near a true 3D engine, we have all been aware of the VAS and OOM problems.

Ray Fry.

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Excellent news, TrueSky did NEED multiple cloud layers, but even with just 2 layers using the stormy set I was sadly at 14 FPS into KOAK (graphics settings all maxed out at 4K) ... not sure how another layer is going to impact performance?  

Hopefully FSW dev team can tune out some of the excessive rapid and repetitive warping of clouds to simulate what I guess is supposed to be cloud motion?   HiFi ASP4/ASCA with 4096 texture sets still has a rather significant reality edge, but if FSW can get it looking close to the screenshot above at min 30 FPS, then they'll have a winner.

Add Dynamic weather downloaded in realtime and seamless updates, that would be a big step above the rest.

Cheers, Rob.

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3 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

even with just 2 layers using the stormy set I was sadly at 14 FPS into KOAK (graphics settings all maxed out at 4K) ... not sure how another layer is going to impact performance?  

Hopefully FSW dev team can tune out some of the excessive rapid and repetitive warping of clouds to simulate what I guess is supposed to be cloud motion?   HiFi ASP4/ASCA with 4096 texture sets still has a rather significant reality edge, but if FSW can get it looking close to the screenshot above at min 30 FPS, then they'll have a winner.

I thought the complexity of weather in TrueSKY doesn't affect performance? Remember its completely different tech than anyone here has ever seen, so I dont think layers will affect us like they do in older FSX titles. 

Do you have traffic turned all the way up? I have it on low and everything turned to the right. I just did a KOAK thunderstorm run and I am getting 35fps on a far lesser system than yours @ 1440p. 

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Same here; one of the big advantages for me with TrueSky is it seems to have no effect on FPS. Clear skies, heavy overcast, barely a whisker of difference in FPS.

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I think you are all saying things that aren't conflicting. My experience with TrueSky is that no matter the sky coverage is, the performance is about the same. But running FSW with default AI traffic levels, a default user aircraft and no cobbled add-ons from FSX etc., for me yields about 30 to 35 fps. That's not going to cut it as more performance killing add-ons are tacked on. I also agree with Rob regarding the aberrant cloud patterns. Maybe it's a 4k thing.

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6 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I think you are all saying things that aren't conflicting. My experience with TrueSky is that no matter the sky coverage is, the performance is about the same. But running FSW with default AI traffic levels, a default user aircraft and no cobbled add-ons from FSX etc., for me yields about 30 to 35 fps. That's not going to cut it as more performance killing add-ons are tacked on. I also agree with Rob regarding the aberrant cloud patterns. Maybe it's a 4k thing.

Pretty sure that FSW default planes are not comparable with FSX default aircrafts, and their "weight" on the system is also not the same.

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I'd agree with that. My only point in mentioning it was that I have not "corrupted" the default FSW installation with any any foreign add-ons.

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10 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Same here; one of the big advantages for me with TrueSky is it seems to have no effect on FPS.

AI traffic certainly has an impact as you can see from my video here, but so does the rain effect and so does TrueSky.  All max ... including AI traffic in an "uncorrupted" installation ... although without "corruption" support I don't think any FS platform will succeed in this market. :)   18 FPS ... drop Traffic down to Min and I'm back upto 30-40 FPS ... lets hope DTG can figure out how to improve Traffic performance as it's AG LOD distance is considerably shorter than other platforms.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Per the DTG devs during the last Multiplayer session, the reason the last updates have been delayed is they are working with Simul to get the lighting and TrueSky updates improved.

Get the various types of base static weather working and simulating real world weather becomes much easier.

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7 hours ago, theohall65 said:

Get the various types of base static weather working and simulating real world weather becomes much easier.

Good point. Reminds me of how REX released Cloud Architect before their full new weather system. Likely because it is easier to create static and controllable environments before dynamic ones. Can't wait! 

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This is my hope that the graphics engine in FSW Trusky will do justice to a real weather data.

Ray Fry 

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