Wide View Aspect or not

[Michael Moe 495]

I use a 49"4K with wideaspect off and 0.58-0.65 (should be higher but49" does not make it much possible.) 

Always felt the approach was given me a fisheye/stretch  and Strange smal runway with it on. Have had some cockpit approaches with MD80 and 737 in real life and the runway is just eating up the hole picture about 4nm out. 

But again thats just me. 

Performance penalties between the two? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[GEKtheReaper 364]

13 hours ago, MarkDH said:

Or you can just zoom out!

No, you can't! Read carefuly my post: a fixed top and bottom 4:3 picture (WideWiev true) can't fill your 16:9 screen if you zoom out (the picture would get smaler).

The SIM will zoom in (make the picture larger) if you don't use WWA set to true!

Please look at the first video of the series you will see how zoom levels affect how far or close things appear.

[GEKtheReaper 364]

12 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

I use a 49"4K with wideaspect off and 0.58-0.65 (should be higher but49" does not make it much possible.) 

Always felt the approach was given me a fisheye/stretch  and Strange smal runway with it on. Have had some cockpit approaches with MD80 and 737 in real life and the runway is just eating up the hole picture about 4nm out. 

But again thats just me. 

Performance penalties between the two? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

The fisheye effect comes from the wrong zoom level (this is what I tried to explain in not been able to estimate where the TDZ is). If your screen is rather a wide one then a 4:3 screen, you will:

1. have to set WWA to true

2. measure the window height and divide it to the real distance between your eyes and the cockpit instruments (you will have to sit at the same distance to the screen as in real life).

Performance wise: WWA to true will need a bit more power because you will see more to the sides (increased horizontal field of view compared to the 4:3 view).

Regards,

Gerald

[MarkDH 234]

4 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

No, you can't! Read carefuly my post: a fixed top and bottom 4:3 picture (WideWiev true) can't fill your 16:9 screen if you zoom out (the picture would get smaler).

Here's an interesting thought experiment for you. What happens if you switch from a 4:3 monitor to a 16:9 in portrait orientation? And what difference does WideViewAspect make?

[FlyBaby 659]

On 9/7/2017 at 0:26 PM, spilok said:

What kind of monitor qualifies for the Wide View setting?  Also, what are your best Zoom settings both in VC and Spot views?

I'd like to hear your opinion on these questions.

Stan

I use a 60 inch 1080p TV for my rig, running wide view and zoom @ 0.70 looks best to me. As others have said, what looks best to you is what you should use.

My logic is to give myself (sitting in front of the monitor) a "life size" sense of sitting inside an actual cockpit where I can see a fair amount of the instruments without panning (I also use Track IR). Zoom at 0.70 gives me the best feel (sense of speed, and size of VC in front of me). My next step is to get an 80 TV so that the letters/numbers on the glass cockpits are larger at 0.70 zoom level (and then test what 0.60 looks like).

[GEKtheReaper 364]

6 hours ago, MarkDH said:

Here's an interesting thought experiment for you. What happens if you switch from a 4:3 monitor to a 16:9 in portrait orientation? And what difference does WideViewAspect make?

Mark I'm not sure what you want me to say. What's the reason behind your question?

Have you watched the videos I (and some others) have posted? In the 3rd one you will see a 3 x 16:9 monitor configuration in portrait where WWA and Zomm gets explained.

If you have another opinion on this, please feel free to add your point of view since this is an open forum.

[GEKtheReaper 364]

4 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

I use a 60 inch 1080p TV for my rig, running wide view and zoom @ 0.70 looks best to me. As others have said, what looks best to you is what you should use.

My logic is to give myself (sitting in front of the monitor) a "life size" sense of sitting inside an actual cockpit where I can see a fair amount of the instruments without panning (I also use Track IR). Zoom at 0.70 gives me the best feel (sense of speed, and size of VC in front of me). My next step is to get an 80 TV so that the letters/numbers on the glass cockpits are larger at 0.70 zoom level (and then test what 0.60 looks like).

Correct approach and if it feels correct then it's close to the right thing.

Not ok would be your approach towards the bigger screen. If you would project the cockpit onto a wall and have a screen dimension of 16:9 meters (it's just an example) if you zomm that much out to have the correct instrument size, you will end up with a much lesser zoom then needed.

[MarkDH 234]

2 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Mark I'm not sure what you want me to say. What's the reason behind your question?

Have you watched the videos I (and some others) have posted? In the 3rd one you will see a 3 x 16:9 monitor configuration in portrait where WWA and Zomm gets explained.

If you have another opinion on this, please feel free to add your point of view since this is an open forum.

Just trying to get you thinking. You said somewhere that you have to have WVA on with a 16:9 monitor, which suggests a confusion about what it does. My last question was about a single 16:9 in portrait, three of them is just like a single 16:9 in landscape. Yes I have watched the videos, BTW.

[MarkDH 234]

14 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Correct approach and if it feels correct then it's close to the right thing.

Not ok would be your approach towards the bigger screen. If you would project the cockpit onto a wall and have a screen dimension of 16:9 meters (it's just an example) if you zomm that much out to have the correct instrument size, you will end up with a much lesser zoom then needed.

What's your reasoning here?

[GEKtheReaper 364]

10 hours ago, MarkDH said:

Just trying to get you thinking. You said somewhere that you have to have WVA on with a 16:9 monitor, which suggests a confusion about what it does. My last question was about a single 16:9 in portrait, three of them is just like a single 16:9 in landscape. Yes I have watched the videos, BTW.

Mark you don't have to get me thinking. Yes I said that with a widewiev monitor you will have to set WWA to true. Widewiev means a monitor 16:9 (not 9:16). So you know somebody using a single 16:9 monitor in portrait? Unfortunately I can't turn mine to even see if the SIM can work with a 9:16 display. With a multiple monitor setup in 9:16 (e.g. 3 monitors like in the last video) the youtuber gets again a widewiev setup. E.g: HD res 1920x1080 (16:9) = portrait 1080x1920 x 3 monitors = (1080x3) 3240x1920 which is again 16:9 format.

10 hours ago, MarkDH said:

What's your reasoning here?

Mark, it seem to me you don't understand what the zoom does: it doesn't only zoom in your cockpit but the entire world!

The user said he is trying to get a "life size" sense of sitting in the cockpit. The correct zoom (of BTW 1) can be achieved only if you have a screen exactly that big as the real thing.

If you have a smaller screen, in order to get your "life size" cockpit, you will have to zoom that much in (enlarge your instruments to theyre "real" size) that you will see nothing else but 1 instrument at a time.

On a way bigger screen (and I gave the measurement unit meters 16meters:9meters) if the user zooms out that much to achieve again "life size" instruments, he will have a massive "fish-eye" effect (objects would appear much further).

To conclude: Actual @FlyBaby 0,7 zoom is very close to the correct setting so he can fly and land visualy without problems.

He's new approach towards bigger screen and zoom change in regard of better viewing the instruments, would be wrong. Please notice the wording "would be" which is not a must but a recomandation.

Regards,

Gerald

[Paul Golding 92]

I think too many users are trying to get the size of things like gauges to where they're comfortable, by using the zoom function.  The zoom function is sadly not limited to the vc, it affects everything you see.  The consequence of having a low zoom is that objects outside appear farther away than they should and things like sense of speed on approach are exaggerated.

In a real plane you'd move your seat back and forth and up and down and FS allows us to do that by moving the eyepoint.  Trying to get what you like to see with zoom is just wrong.  So wideview true and zoom at 1.00 is correct, whether we like it not is another issue of course.  Personally, I tend to correct the eyepoint and use zoom of 0.90, but I do it knowing it should be 1.00.

[MarkDH 234]

17 minutes ago, Paul Golding said:

wideview true and zoom at 1.00 is correct, whether we like it not is another issue of course

This is not sufficient. For this to be correct you also need to be sitting so that the screen fills 34 degrees of your vertical field of view (or your horizontal FOV if WideViewAspect is off). If you sit closer to the screen or further away, you need to adjust the zoom to compensate.

[MarkDH 234]

10 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

The correct zoom (of BTW 1) can be achieved only if you have a screen exactly that big as the real thing.

I don't know what this means.

10 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

On a way bigger screen ... if the user zooms out that much to achieve again "life size" instruments, he will have a massive "fish-eye" effect (objects would appear much further).

I don't think so. Don't confuse zooming out with creating a fish-eye effect. Zooming out does not create a fish-eye effect, that it caused by asking P3D to project a wider slice of the 3D world onto a 2D surface. The further away from the centre of the image you go, the more distortion you will see.

Everything follows from these three assumptions:

(1) P3D (and FSX) models the world in a consistent scale in the 3D model of the world. (So the VC is drawn in proportion to the trees, runways, altitudes, etc.)
(2) You have your eyepoint set at approximately the right distance in the virtual cockpit.
(3) You sit at a viewing distance* such that the screen fills roughly 34 degrees** of your horizontal field of view (if you have WideViewAspect OFF) or 34 degrees of your vertical field of view (if you have WideViewAspect ON).

If these three criteria are met, you can set your zoom factor such that the gauges on the screen measure (with a ruler) about the same size as the real ones and you are good to go. For a typical 16:9 monitor (24" at about 50cm viewing distance) you will find that the zoom factor is somewhere close to 1.0 if you have WideViewAspect ON or 0.6 if you have WideViewAspect OFF.

If you have a much bigger monitor and you measure the gauges as I have described, you will find the zoom factor comes out different. For a 40" TV, for example, it will be closer to 0.65 (WideViewAspect ON) or 0.4 (WideViewAspect OFF). For a 100" TV, it will be about 0.33 (WideViewAspect ON) or 0.2 (WideViewAspect OFF). These are the zoom factors you need for realism, assuming 'realism' means that scale and speeds look about the same as in the real world. For the 100" TV you will not be able to achieve a zoom of 0.2, so you need to use WideViewAspect ON and 0.33, or accept that you are a bit more zoomed in than you should be. In th eother cases it makes no difference whether you use WideViewAspect or not.

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[*The viewing distance is not that important when just flying along because everything is far away and in the real world there is little parallax except between the VC and the outside world. But on final approach, or taxiing near to other things, it matters because it affects the scale. Critically, if you are sitting further away, speeds will look wrong because perception of speed is about angular movement across your field of view.

[**I have lost the reference for the 34 degrees. I think it was from a PTaylor blog post but now I can't find it.]

[GEKtheReaper 364]

12 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

If these three criteria are met, you can set your zoom factor such that the gauges on the screen measure (with a ruler) about the same size as the real ones and you are good to go. For a typical 16:9 monitor (24" at about 50cm viewing distance) you will find that the zoom factor is somewhere close to 1.0 if you have WideViewAspect ON or 0.6 if you have WideViewAspect OFF.

Mark I think we are both talking about the same thing but have different things in mind.

Your above statement is absolutely true, no doubt about it. What I think you missunderstood ist that given the fact that the smaller your monitor is the more you have to miniaturise (is this even a word???) what you see. Ergo my point is not to have 1:1 real world gauges on my 24" monitor since I will see only the ND (or another instrument at a time) but to have the right distances in this miniaturized world.

If I set WWA ON, park at a gate and go near a Zoom of 1, I would literally see what the passangers read in the ARP lounge just before embarking the plane. The building is so big and near to my ACFT that I feel I parked my cockpit in the lounge. ;).

You will find none of the guys here with a 24" monitor and a zoom even close to 1.

I would say: less talking more flying so wish you always 3 greens!

Best wishes,

Gerald

[vgbaron 3,626]

Now throw TrackIR  into the mix.........

 

 

Vic