AviatorMan

Flight Replica DC-4 released

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Has anyone tried this new aircraft and wish to compare it to the PMDG DC-6 and A2A Constellation?

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Functionality is similar to their North Star/Argonaut, although unlike the North Star, the new DC-4/C-54A&B/ATL-98 is an either/or purchase for FSX or P3D whereas the North Star was a dual install from one product, nevertheless, you do get several aircraft types for your money, two of which are noticeably different, since the Carvair looks like a completely different aeroplane. The VCs appearance, colour schemes and equipment in them vary between the different models too, although the main difference is in the radio and other nav aids, either modern or original.

As with the Flight Replicas North Star (which you may have and is kind of a sister ship to this one), the Flight Replicas DC-4 functionality is primarily limited to what the pilot does, i.e. much of what the flight engineer does is not simulated, automated, or simplified to allow it to be operated from the pilot's seat instead of having to do the FE's job too, so unlike the A2A Constellation and the PMDG DC-6, where you have the choice of either having an automated crew assist you, or the somewhat impractical choice of doing it all yourself, with those Flight Replicas airliners, the choice is made for you, which you may or may not prefer. It's sort of similar where the navigator is concerned, there is a small navigator's panel, but since you get a choice of modern or old avionics, you don't really need to indulge in any complex navigation to fly it about although since the autopilot is a basic heading hold one as per the original aeroplane, there is some manual operation necessary for flying it along a route although since the DC-4 is not pressurised, you're unlikely to be always above the clouds a lot of the time anyway, so it will be feasible to use a bit of VFR navigation.

If you use Lorby-SI's Firefighter X, there is some additional functionality available in an aerial firefighter variant which comes with the package, with a dedicated panel to operate the fire retardant dropping, and its visual model is different too, with the requisite bay for the fire retardant visible.

Incidentally, if you are unsure about whether it would float your boat or not, you can download the manaul for it for free and check that out. It is a 30 page PDF, which doesn't take long to read, and that should give you some indication that it isn't a 'study simulation' by any stretch of the imagination, so you don't to have to worry about avoiding shock cooling the engines or clearing the plugs etc, although if you are into all that stuff then add-ons such as the PMDG DC-6, the A2A Connie and the Aerosoft Catalina would serve you better, since they do have that kind of thing simulated.

On the other hand, if you want to indulge in your own version of the movie Always, via Lorby's Firefighter X add-on, then the Flight Replicas one might float your boat.

Visually, you can judge it off the screenshots on the Flight Replicas website. Personally I think the textures are a bit too clean and the VC textures would also benefit from bit of wear and tear I think, and whilst this is something repainters can fix easily, a bit more work in that area from the developer would go a long way toward making it worth the price. I ended up doing a repaint of my North Star to sort that out, and it does add a lot to the appearance of it. One of course would not expect the airliners to be filthy, but anyone who knows old aeroplanes like these knows that even when you have the desire to keep them clean, you're up against it from all the crud the exhausts throw out and all the oil which sprays off the engine.

Stand in front of a Twin Wasp when it fires up, and trust me, you will get covered in oil. That stuff flies back onto the wings and cowlings and then dirt and dust sticks to it, so even an aeroplane which was jet washed ten minutes before the engine start will be fairly mucky once the engines get fired up and have been running for twenty minutes. It's a bit like the nostalgia for old steam locomotives where old aeroplanes are concerned, when you see em all polished up in a museum, you don't see how filthy and greasy the things were in reality when being used daily lol, and I think developers of flight sim add-ons which are depicted as being in daily use should be a bit more aware of that when it comes to the paint jobs, there was a good reason behind why most of old propliner cowlings and the business end of steam locomotives were painted dark colours.

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Just done a quick video of it, but it will be a while to upload it to youtube and I've gotta go out and see to my horse, so I'll post it later on this evening when I've sorted out Katie the horse. The video is nothing fancy it shows the Carvair variant, but it'll give you an idea of what it is like in terms of the VC, engine sounds, texturing etc, etc.

 

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44 minutes ago, Chock said:

Just done a quick video of it, but it will be a while to upload it to youtube and I've gotta go out and see to my horse, so I'll post it later on this evening when I've sorted out Katie the horse. The video is nothing fancy it shows the Carvair variant, but it'll give you an idea of what it is like in terms of the VC, engine sounds, texturing etc, etc.

 

What's wrong with Katie? 

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32 minutes ago, joemiller said:

What's wrong with Katie? 

They need feeding, mucking out, taking out or bringing in, normally twice a day. 

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Thanks, will appreciate the detailed feedback. Currently I am flying the PMDG DC-6 and Manfred Jahn's freeware DC-3 almost exclusively. I am impressed with both for the systems depth and general "real-world" feel (e.g.,they both have realistic cockpit vibrations that enhance the immersion factor). I haven't purchased the A2A Constellation yet, as I am so impressed with the PMDG DC-6, but I expect to do so in a few  weeks. I would be interested in the Flight-Replica DC-4 if it has reasonable systems depth and cockpit vibrations, as I am interested in Douglas Aircraft's progression from the DC-4 to the 6  and eventually to the 7. I have been using the DC-3 and DC-6 to fly historic airline routes: e.g., United Airlines north to south Pacific (all flying over ORBX regions) - both DC-3 and DC-6 during late 1930's and 1940's. But during the transition period from the DC-3 to DC-6, most airlines were using DC-4's for some routes, so it would be interesting to have a good model for flight sim.

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I don't want to hijack your thread, but does anyone know if Manfred's DC3/C47 works in P3Dv4.1?

THANKS!

sg

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Yes, it does, if you install the updated sound module.

Peter

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Just watched your Carvair vid on YouTube, Alan. That cockpit is pristine! Appreciate you switching to an external shot when retracting the gear - I'd noticed the bulbous nosewheel doors & was curious to see how the wheel tucked away.

Does it come with any car models you can load into it?

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3 hours ago, joemiller said:

What's wrong with Katie? 

Not to worry, there is nothing amiss with Katie, she just needs mucking out, feeding, brushing etc, all part of the fun of horses lol. Here is that vid:

 

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52 minutes ago, qqwertzde said:

Yes, it does, if you install the updated sound module.

Peter

Got it - THANKS!  

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1 hour ago, HighBypass said:

Just watched your Carvair vid on YouTube, Alan. That cockpit is pristine! Appreciate you switching to an external shot when retracting the gear - I'd noticed the bulbous nosewheel doors & was curious to see how the wheel tucked away.

Does it come with any car models you can load into it?

Yup, the virtual cockpit is very shiny and clean in the Carvair, but that is as far as I am aware an accurate depiction, since the old DC-4s and C-54s which were bought by Aviation Traders in order to convert them into the newly-designed ATL-98 Carvair had to have new cockpit and cabins constructed, so they would have been very new-looking in the early 1960s despite having been built from mainly ex-military surplus DC-4s of late 40s and early 50s vintage. The depiction of the DC-4/C-54 cockpits is a bit more vintage.

Can't say I've tried everything in this Flight Replicas DC-4 package, so I honestly don't know if there are any car models which come with it although I doubt it since there is no mention of that in the manual, but then again, as per your comment on the youtube vid (which made me laugh), the Scousers might have nicked them, since as you observed, it was taking off from EGGP.

In all honesty, I think this add-on is a bit pricey. It translated to costing about 40 quid, which is fairly expensive for something which doesn't have too much in the way of complex systems simulation, but having said that, you do get three different aeroplane types in there, and a lot of different-looking models, one of which has some added firefighting functionality for use with Lorby's Firefighter X.

Being familiar with Flight Replicas other Douglas DC - their Argonaut/North Star, which I also bought - I pretty much knew what to expect with this one in terms of functionality, i.e. it's about on par with Just Flight's Aeroplane Heaven airliners, i.e. not exactly study sims, but with enough going on to keep things fun, however, I suspect some people might find them a bit lacking in the system stuff which is often interesting when it comes to older aeroplanes in comparison to stuff such as A2A's efforts in that arena.

Nevertheless, I like their Argonaut, but I have personal reasons for that since my dad rescued some of the passengers from one which crashed in my home town in 1967, and I know it took a lot of bravery on his part as the thing was burning ferociously; that very aeroplane is one of those depicted in the Flight Replicas Argonaut/North Star package, so it reminds me of what a cool guy my dad was whenever I fly that thing. Likewise I've got a reason for liking the Carvair you get in this add-on, since it was the brainchild of one of the true pioneers of British aviation - Freddie Laker - who was responsible for so much we see in aviation these days, including derated take-offs, low cost airlines, and above all a 'can do' attitude in the face of taking on larger competitors which provided the inspiration to the founders of Easyjet and Virgin airlines amongst others. I always like people who don't take no for an answer when they know they are right, and the Carvair is the embodiment of that attitude in the form of an aeroplane.

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Thanks for the video - I'd been hoping to see one.  Have to say I don't mind the pristine VC - I have problems with the ones that are excessively blocky (like the JustFlight HS 748, that VC was a dealbreaker for me).  I wouldn't mind more system depth, or at least some consequences for engine abuse, but on the other hand, it's nice to have a more casual ride among all the demanding ones.  How did the flight model strike you?  It's by Bernt Stolle, which suggests it ought to be good.  One additional plus for me is that Mike was a major help to the Jahn/Visser C-47 v3 project at a critical juncture, so I'd like to be able to return the favor if only in a small way.  Haven't had a chance this week to review the manual or do much other research - I will, but the video has me leaning toward a buy.  Most appreciated.  

About the price - seems like decent value to me, given all the different variants in the package and the high degree of VC customization.

Oh, and - agreed about Sir Freddie.  Thanks to him, I was able to afford my first trip to Europe.  So... lasting gratitude for Laker Skytrain, and all things Laker.

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1 hour ago, Alan_A said:

How did the flight model strike you?  It's by Bernt Stolle, which suggests it ought to be good. 

That's actually one of the things I do really like about it. Now of course I've never flown a real DC-4, much less an ATL-98 Carvair, so how it should fly is obviously speculative on my part, but not uneducated speculation, in that I am familiar enough with the performance envelope of the DC-4 to know what speeds, rates of turn, roll etc it should have, which it does exhibit accurately, but perhaps more importantly, it feels right to me in the sim, which is maybe even more important than being right on the numbers.

You can actually perceive a bit of that in the video I posted; that was recorded on literally the second flight I'd made in the thing, the first one also being a quick circuit of that airfield where i came in one the VASI lights as one should, and so I was experimenting with the approach speeds on that second trip: Seeing that I was a bit slow and dropping below the VASI lights, rather than get back on the glideslope I decided to stay on that line, come in a bit flat and do a 'wheeler' landing. The fact that I could do that with no problem and determine the throttle and pitch settings necessary to achieve it easily when completely unfamiliar with the thing demonstrates that it flies pretty much as one would expect an aircraft of that type and size to fly, and so is one of those flight sim add-ons which becomes a pleasure to fly.

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2 hours ago, Chock said:

but perhaps more importantly, it feels right to me in the sim, which is maybe even more important than being right on the numbers.

Absolutely.  I'm not a pilot, and even if I were, I wouldn't be the pilot of a DC-4 or a Carvair.  The flight models that work best for me are the ones that give you the sense of a physical object with mass and momentum and inertia, moving in an air mass.  Seems hard to do, maybe more art than science.  I generally find it in FDEs by Bernt, Rob Young and Alexander Metzger - those are the ones I keep going back to.  Your video made it look like the Carvair had that quality.  Thanks for confirming.  

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A video of some firefighting using retardant to contain the area around a forest fire so it burns itself out (which is much safer than water-bombing over those big flames), in the Flight Replicas DC-4 with Lorby SI Firefighter X in P3D V4.1. I cranked up the sound levels in P3D so you can hear the engine noise, which as on the FR North Star/Argonaut, is also really excellent on this DC-4:

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Chock said:

A video of some firefighting using retardant to contain the area around a forest fire so it burns itself out (which is much safer than water-bombing over those big flames), in the Flight Replicas DC-4 with Lorby SI Firefighter X in P3D V4.1. I cranked up the sound levels in P3D so you can hear the engine noise, which as on the FR North Star/Argonaut, is also really excellent on this DC-4:

Sounds like there are some good things to be said for this DC-4 model, but your comments about the limited systems depth make me think I will just stick with the PMDG DC-6. I also picked up from the comments in this thread that the Manfred Jahn DC-3 needs to have the Doug Dawson 64-bit sound gauge file installed for P3Dv4.1 - I have been flying it without it and was happy enough, not noticing that the cockpit switch sounds were not there. I have installed the Dawson file and see what I was missing. Two great aircraft in P3Dv4.1 - the PMDG DC-6 and the Manfred Jahn DC-3!

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, AviatorMan said:

Sounds like there are some good things to be said for this DC-4 model, but your comments about the limited systems depth make me think I will just stick with the PMDG DC-6. I also picked up from the comments in this thread that the Manfred Jahn DC-3 needs to have the Doug Dawson 64-bit sound gauge file installed for P3Dv4.1 - I have been flying it without it and was happy enough, not noticing that the cockpit switch sounds were not there. I have installed the Dawson file and see what I was missing. Two great aircraft in P3Dv4.1 - the PMDG DC-6 and the Manfred Jahn DC-3!

Yup, if you want the systems to be simulated in more detail for these types of old airliners, A2A and PMDG would be the best choices. You can find some other stuff out there which is good too if you like old airliners such as these, for example the Aerosoft Consolidated PBY Catalina is very good in that regard, as is the Aeroplane Heaven/Just Flight Boeing B17F.

I do have the PMDG DC-6, although I've also got the Just Flight one too, which is pretty good and despite the JF website not saying so, it does work in P3D V4.1, and obviously I've got the Flight Replicas DC-4 and their North Star as well, and in spite of them not matching the PMDG in terms of system simulation realism for an old Douglas airliner, I do still think they have their relative merits.

Here they are, all those old Douglas propliners lined up to make a really cool ramp. The Flight Replicas BAF ATL-98, Air France DC-4 and a BOAC Argonaut with Merlin engines, the Just Flight Pan American DC-6B, and the PMDG British Eagle DC-6A:

gke635O.jpg 

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On 11/4/2017 at 4:26 PM, Chock said:

Yup, if you want the systems to be simulated in more detail for these types of old airliners, A2A and PMDG would be the best choices. You can find some other stuff out there which is good too if you like old airliners such as these, for example the Aerosoft Consolidated PBY Catalina is very good in that regard, as is the Aeroplane Heaven/Just Flight Boeing B17F.

I do have the PMDG DC-6, although I've also got the Just Flight one too, which is pretty good and despite the JF website not saying so, it does work in P3D V4.1, and obviously I've got the Flight Replicas DC-4 and their North Star as well, and in spite of them not matching the PMDG in terms of system simulation realism for an old Douglas airliner, I do still think they have their relative merits.

Here they are, all those old Douglas propliners lined up to make a really cool ramp. The Flight Replicas BAF ATL-98, Air France DC-4 and a BOAC Argonaut with Merlin engines, the Just Flight Pan American DC-6B, and the PMDG British Eagle DC-6A:

gke635O.jpg 

That's a fine looking fleet you have! Love these propliners from the 50's. My dad was a flight engineer for American Airlines, flying DC-6's (later he flew the Lockheed Electra turboprop, Boeing 707, and retired flying the DC-10). As the whole family had free flight passes, we took advantage of these every year at vacation time, and I have fond memories of many flights in DC-6's, DC-7's and other liners of the period. Another piston airliner of the era that I think is very interesting is the Convair CV-240 twin mid-range, which American had developed to replace its fleet of DC-3's. I haven't seen any simulation model of this aircraft since CalClassic's FS9 version.

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18 minutes ago, AviatorMan said:

That's a fine looking fleet you have! Love these propliners from the 50's. My dad was a flight engineer for American Airlines, flying DC-6's (later he flew the Lockheed Electra turboprop, Boeing 707, and retired flying the DC-10). As the whole family had free flight passes, we took advantage of these every year at vacation time, and I have fond memories of many flights in DC-6's, DC-7's and other liners of the period. Another piston airliner of the era that I think is very interesting is the Convair CV-240 twin mid-range, which American had developed to replace its fleet of DC-3's. I haven't seen any simulation model of this aircraft since CalClassic's FS9 version.

Yup, I'm really hoping some stuff such as the Convair CV-240 and the Lockheed L-188 Electra show up for P3D

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Just a heads up for anyone interested in this thing; it's now available from Just Flight's store, which means it's available at a much more palatable £28.49 than the 40-odd quid I payed for it when getting thoroughly stiffed by the Dollar to Sterling conversion rate upon buying it direct from Flight Replicas and paying through Paypal. Not that I'm having a go at them, nobody twisted my arm lol.

I would say that lower price, especially when you'd also get about £1.50's worth of loyalty points from JF, taking it down to about 27 quid, is probably about right price-wise for what it is, i.e. not a massively in-depth simulation in comparison to the PMDG Douglas (yeah I know it's not the same aircraft, but it's sort of similar), but largely offset by the fact that you are getting three different aeroplanes for the price with that Flight Replicas package, and quite a bit of variety among the three variants too, including the rather unusual and (depending on your point of view) either fugly, or interesting, ATL-98 Carvair. 

I've been having a lot of fun with the Firefighting C-54 variant of it coupled with Lorby's Firefighter X. And on the plus side given its comparative simplicity to the PMDG Douglas, it does sound great and seems to handle in a very similar fashion to that PMDG DC-6, so I'd guess it must be a reasonably accurate flight model, certainly it does seem to fly in a pretty convincing manner and I do like the way it does it without me having to pray to the God of Pratt and Whitney to get its engines to fire up lol.

Worth a look if you've got about 25 notes burning a hole in your pocket and are keen on old propliners.

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I've also got the Just Flight one too, which is pretty good and despite the JF website not saying so, it does work in P3D V4.1, 

Alan,
Do you find the engines work properly on the JF DC-6 in V4?
As I remember there is a 32-bit WEP gauge (War Emergency Power) in the panel which I think is used for the superchargers ... and that won't work...

It flies OK in V4 but is a little slow/thirsty which hurts the pocket in FSEconomy :) )

Cheers
Keith

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On ‎03‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 10:56 PM, AviatorMan said:

 I also picked up from the comments in this thread that the Manfred Jahn DC-3 needs to have the Doug Dawson 64-bit sound gauge file installed for P3Dv4.1 - I have been flying it without it and was happy enough, not noticing that the cockpit switch sounds were not there.

Just be aware that not only the cockpit switch sounds are missing without this updated sound gauge, but also all co-pilot readouts. This I was missing, that's why I use the Doug Dawson gauge now.

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56 minutes ago, keithb77 said:

Alan,
Do you find the engines work properly on the JF DC-6 in V4?
As I remember there is a 32-bit WEP gauge (War Emergency Power) in the panel which I think is used for the superchargers ... and that won't work...

It flies OK in V4 but is a little slow/thirsty which hurts the pocket in FSEconomy :) )

Cheers
Keith

Well, the DC-6B from Just Flight has to be manually installed in P3D V4.1 (it isn't listed as P3D compatible at all on the JF website, only FSX, and not even FSX-SE according to the product page). I'd tend to think it would actually be fully FSX-SE compatible though since it says SP2/.Acceleration compatible on the product page, but as you know, you do need that Acceleration stuff for some additional engine features of FS add-ons to work, for example, the Flight Replicas Argonaut/North Star won't even throttle up on FSX (boxed version) without the Acceleration add-on being installed, or of course FSX-SE since Acceleration is part of that. It was actually that on the Argonaut which prompted me to get the Steam version, since I'd lost my Acceleration DLC installation files which I bought as DLC years ago and it was the first add-on I installed after a HD wipe and reinstall of FSX boxed and I found would not work without Acceleration.

Having said all that, I've not noticed it working in P3D V4.1 (which I manually installed the JF DC-6B into), when using those Water/Methanol injection switches on the overhead, i.e. no boost in power, no engine noise change and no indication of anything different on the engine gauges. Supposedly it is only available above throttle settings of 95 percent, at which point the available lights come on, but unless I'm doing something wrong (not unknown lol), it doesn't look like it does much, although it's been a while since I've tried it, so I might take another look and see if I can get it going because the JF DC-6B is kind of cool and I do like it.

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Re: Water Methanol Injection on the Just Flight DC-6B. It works via the VC switches on the thing in FSX-SE, but the switches don't trigger it in P3D V4, however, you can get it to work by assigning a button or keypress to WEP in P3D V4.1 (there is no key assigned by default), and then it is reflected on the engine gauges in the JF DC-6B in P3D V4.1. So in other words, yes it does work, just not via the switches on the overhead in the VC when in Prepar3D.

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