Dane Watson

FSX no longer compatible - will now purchase P3D

Recommended Posts

I am posting in this forum mainly because I am seeking general feedback regarding P3D v4.1 before I make the purchase sooner than I was planning to.

FSX is mentioned in my subject only because Microsoft today has informed me that it is no longer compatible with Windows 10 since the Creators Update (now at version 1709) came out in September - I no longer can operate FSX-SE due to so many crashes and error messages. So after two months of struggling to make it work I have to surrender. Microsoft gave me two choices - go back to Windows 7 or eliminate FSX-SE and get a compatible flight simulator. After twenty years and much investment of MSFS I was devastated - but life does go on.

 

So my general question is - Is anyone aware of any issues with P3D v4.1 since the Windows 10 Creators Update came out?

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Not aware of any issues with v4, only v3. 

There were also murmurs of possible conflicts with the upcoming Windows fall update. (specifically with Majestics Q400) but I haven't heard anything else. 

Making the jump to P3D is a great decision. If you have any problems,  people here will be more than happy to help. 

Share this post


Link to post

No issues here either: running P3D 4.1 on Windows 1709 and I love both. 

Share this post


Link to post

There is a topic here about a patch for Windows 10 that is supposed to fix some issues for FSX.

I think you should upgrade anyway to PD3V4, but perhaps this patch could help you to migrate in a more controllable way.

Regards 

Simbol 

Share this post


Link to post

The problem with the update effected 32 bit applications I understand. Would not effect P3DV4 and it doesn't. 

Share this post


Link to post

Correct, but the OP uses FSX, he wants to upgrade because is having issues with it under Windows 10.

simbol 

Share this post


Link to post

Apart from people's financial limitations, I don't understand how one would not want to upgrade to P3D4 and leave the old witch behind. It's time, things are stable, everyone for the most part is happy, do it!

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

Apart from people's financial limitations, I don't understand how one would not want to upgrade to P3D4 and leave the old witch behind. It's time, things are stable, everyone for the most part is happy, do it!

I for one will be keeping P3D v3.4 until FSL Concorde is updated to 64-bit. If it isn’t then that version will remain but at some point I’m more than willing to install P3Dv4.

Whilst having no OOM issues will be wonderful I still have concerns over performance if sliders are all pushed to the right and resolution is increased to 4K. That will impact on performance quite substantially.

The ‘old witch’ isn’t FSX, it’s Windows 10 which I will only install through gritted teeth. I detest not having control over updates.

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, Dane Watson said:

So my general question is - Is anyone aware of any issues with P3D v4.1 since the Windows 10 Creators Update came out?

Windows 10, updated to the most recent version and with the most recent patches etc has no impact on how P3D V4.1 runs on my PC, and in fact doesn't have any impact on FSX-SE either, that runs just fine too. It's worth noting here that with P3D, I only updated the client, not the other stuff, might do that at some point but didn't really feel the need to since 4.1 was mainly adding VR stuff and tarting up some of the default planes a bit, neither of which bothered me too much.

Actually, the only thing Win 10 has caused an issue with for me, is a joystick I bought the other week, which I stupidly didn't check to see if it said Win 10 compatible in terms of drivers on the box, and sure enough, it only had up to Win 8 drivers available. I got it going eventually after some effort, but it doesn't list it in the hardware controller dropdown of either P3D or FSX-SE, and it doesn't receive any force feedback signals from P3D V4 (it does from FSX-SE), but I can nevertheless assign switches to it, which is why I can live with it being like that.

Unfortunately I think when we are into running flight simulators such as FSX and P3D, the problem is that it would be far better if either Lockheed Martin or Dovetail just went 'screw this, let's start from scratch' instead of hanging on to the ESP-based foundation which FSX, P3D and FSW are all built upon. Actually, as we know, that is what ACES and Microsoft should have done years ago, and would have done too if Bill Gates had stuck around since he was the aviation buff at MS, but by the time it was apparent that's what the FS franchise needed, Bill was packing his bags and MS were tightening their belts, so it never happened.

But it's patently obvious from stuff such as AeroFly FS2, DCS World and even XPlane 11, all of which ably demonstrate that a flight sim does not have to struggle to get decent frame rates and visuals on modern hardware, that souping up ESP-based sims which were built on the basis that increased CPU speeds would always solve graphic issues, is like bolting rocket engines to a Model T Ford, yup, that'll make it go faster, but it's likely gonna make the wheels fall off too. Dovetail are kind of half addressing it with some big tweaks to their fledgling FSW, but at present that makes CPUs and GPUs really struggle with it, and it remains to be seen whether they can solve that issue. Lockheed Martin are addressing some of it too, but when the big visual deal from P3D V4 to V4.1 is adding a half baked rain effect to the SDK, then you know that total reboot with a new 3D engine is never going to happen.

Sadly, this means we end up having to be 'early adopters' of hardware in order to have our ESP-based flight sims run okay, because we need a hardware sledgehammer to crack the walnut, and even in doing that, just when we think we've got it cracked, along comes some developer and makes an FSL A320 or a VFR photoreal scenery with full accurately modelled autogen on top of it, to slow us down again simply because 64 bit want give us an OOM, even though it sure as hell will give us a slideshow.

And that shiny new hardware always needs the latest operating system to get the best out of it; this is particularly true of the latest CPUs, some features of which won't even work at all unless you have Windows 10 as your operating system. This is in fact what prompted me to go to Windows 10 (from having used Win 7) and keep it fully updated. It's worth noting here incidentally, that you are actually not forced to do the updates for Win 10 as some are suggesting is the case, they can be manually approved for installation.

So, yeah, FSX-SE and P3D V4.1 run fine on the latest Win 10 in terms of stability, but it's not the magic performance bullet we really need, but if FSX-SE isn't giving you OOMs and you've got it looking good, then you'll have to think long and hard about starting again with the blank canvas of P3D, which will be expensive to paint up when you consider that most of us have been buying add-ons for FSX for about a decade, and that's a lot of money to be suddenly throwing at P3D, which isn't visually that different from FSX-SE apart from maybe the cloud shadows of P3D and airport wet aprons of FSX which are two obvious visual differences of their default look. Having said that, when in the history of flight swimming was it ever any different? We've always had to be getting our hands in our pockets in this hobby, for either hardware, software, or more often than not, both.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, simbol said:

There is a topic here about a patch for Windows 10 that is supposed to fix some issues for FSX.

I think you should upgrade anyway to PD3V4, but perhaps this patch could help you to migrate in a more controllable way.

Regards 

Simbol 

Thank you simbol. I am for sure going to purchase P3D v4.1, but iI would still like to fix this issue with FSX-SE.

You mention a topic here about a patch for Windows 10 - I will have to search it out, have not found it as yet.

Share this post


Link to post

KB4048955 was released today, install that and see if it fixes your issue, I no longer have FSX or p3d V3 installed to test it with.

Share this post


Link to post
On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:11 PM, Dane Watson said:

I am posting in this forum mainly because I am seeking general feedback regarding P3D v4.1 before I make the purchase sooner than I was planning to.

FSX is mentioned in my subject only because Microsoft today has informed me that it is no longer compatible with Windows 10 since the Creators Update (now at version 1709) came out in September - I no longer can operate FSX-SE due to so many crashes and error messages. So after two months of struggling to make it work I have to surrender. Microsoft gave me two choices - go back to Windows 7 or eliminate FSX-SE and get a compatible flight simulator. After twenty years and much investment of MSFS I was devastated - but life does go on.

 

So my general question is - Is anyone aware of any issues with P3D v4.1 since the Windows 10 Creators Update came out?

Unfortunately most of this forum is brainwashed with Windows10 and Prepar3D v.X along with dynamic lighting and other nonsense the render engine really isn't quite ready to deliver efficiently.

Prepar3D will not be moving to DirectX 12 anytime soon and if you do not have any need for DX12 games, I suggest you hang onto Windows7 as long as you can. MS will support it for several more years.

It runs Prepar3D v4.1 just fine, just as well as Windows10, and, in Windows 10  you have to deal with video driver upgrades shoved down your throat automatically where lets say version 385.69 is the most stable right now, but Windows10 will (downgrade you) automatically just like MS downgraded your Flightsim installation, automatically.

Seriously..   if you are satisfied with your Flight sim install be it FSX box, FSXse,.. and are running SkyLake processor or under please do not let this forum or Microsoft steer you sideways. Stay with what works and it isn't Windows10 with P3D, well, that's another subject. Be ready to buy new hardware for literally nothing if you have a good/stable Flightsim FSX/FSXSe install today, or..  stay with Windows7 x64 and not be bothered with the Microsoft Windows10 drama for a few more years.

 

If you cant toss Windows10 for hardware reasons, that's understandable and unfortunate. They still sell the OEM system builder version if you can.

 

Of course there are some really big 3rd party developers as well as some Seattle Seahawks and Orlando Magic fans monitoring the forums who are red-faced and cussing me out behind the scenes right now. So much so, this post might disappear.

 

That's ok, .. wait, what's the term, oh that's right; "The truth shall set you free."

 

Good luck and may the force be with you, always

:)

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, sillyflyer said:

Unfortunately most of this forum is brainwashed with Windows10 and Prepar3D v.X along with dynamic lighting and other nonsense the render engine really isn't quite ready to deliver efficiently.

 

Prepar3D will not be moving to DirectX 12 anytime soon and if you do not have any need for DX12 games, I suggest you hang onto Windows7 as long as you can. MS will support it for several more years.

 

It runs Prepar3D v4.1 just fine, just as well as Windows10, and, in Windows 10  you have to deal with video driver upgrades shoved down your throat automatically where lets say version 385.69 is the most stable right now, but Windows10 will (downgrade you) you automatically just like MS downgraded your Flightsim installation, automatically.

 

Seriously..   if you are satisfied with your Flight sim install be it FSX box, FSXse,.. and are running SkyLake processor or under please do not let this forum or Microsoft steer you sideways. Stay with what works and it isn't Windows10 with P3D, well, that's another subject. Be ready to buy new hardware for literally nothing if you have a good/stable Flightsim install today, or..  stay with Windows7 x64 and not be bothered with the Microsoft Windows10 drama for a few more years.

 

Of course there are some really big 3rd party developers as well as some Seattle Seahawks who are red-faced and cussing me out behind the scenes right now

:)

 

No one is brainwashed into anything so get that out of your head.
LM are introducing new features into the sim, they have some bugs yes but eventually they will be ironed out.  Technology advances and pushing the sim to new levels advances the sim and add on developers also, Without these new features added over time the sim would become stale.

 

Another thing about Windows 7, I loved it.  It was a great OS, but with newer hardware not supporting windows 7 it is getting hard to use it.   Most newer CPU's won't even work with Windows 7 anymore.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Chock said:

Windows 10, updated to the most recent version and with the most recent patches etc has no impact on how P3D V4.1 runs on my PC, and in fact doesn't have any impact on FSX-SE either, that runs just fine too. It's worth noting here that with P3D, I only updated the client, not the other stuff, might do that at some point but didn't really feel the need to since 4.1 was mainly adding VR stuff and tarting up some of the default planes a bit, neither of which bothered me too much.

Actually, the only thing Win 10 has caused an issue with for me, is a joystick I bought the other week, which I stupidly didn't check to see if it said Win 10 compatible in terms of drivers on the box, and sure enough, it only had up to Win 8 drivers available. I got it going eventually after some effort, but it doesn't list it in the hardware controller dropdown of either P3D or FSX-SE, and it doesn't receive any force feedback signals from P3D V4 (it does from FSX-SE), but I can nevertheless assign switches to it, which is why I can live with it being like that.

Unfortunately I think when we are into running flight simulators such as FSX and P3D, the problem is that it would be far better if either Lockheed Martin or Dovetail just went 'screw this, let's start from scratch' instead of hanging on to the ESP-based foundation which FSX, P3D and FSW are all built upon. Actually, as we know, that is what ACES and Microsoft should have done years ago, and would have done too if Bill Gates had stuck around since he was the aviation buff at MS, but by the time it was apparent that's what the FS franchise needed, Bill was packing his bags and MS were tightening their belts, so it never happened.

But it's patently obvious from stuff such as AeroFly FS2, DCS World and even XPlane 11, all of which ably demonstrate that a flight sim does not have to struggle to get decent frame rates and visuals on modern hardware, that souping up ESP-based sims which were built on the basis that increased CPU speeds would always solve graphic issues, is like bolting rocket engines to a Model T Ford, yup, that'll make it go faster, but it's likely gonna make the wheels fall off too. Dovetail are kind of half addressing it with some big tweaks to their fledgling FSW, but at present that makes CPUs and GPUs really struggle with it, and it remains to be seen whether they can solve that issue. Lockheed Martin are addressing some of it too, but when the big visual deal from P3D V4 to V4.1 is adding a half baked rain effect to the SDK, then you know that total reboot with a new 3D engine is never going to happen.

Sadly, this means we end up having to be 'early adopters' of hardware in order to have our ESP-based flight sims run okay, because we need a hardware sledgehammer to crack the walnut, and even in doing that, just when we think we've got it cracked, along comes some developer and makes an FSL A320 or a VFR photoreal scenery with full accurately modelled autogen on top of it, to slow us down again simply because 64 bit want give us an OOM, even though it sure as hell will give us a slideshow.

And that shiny new hardware always needs the latest operating system to get the best out of it; this is particularly true of the latest CPUs, some features of which won't even work at all unless you have Windows 10 as your operating system. This is in fact what prompted me to go to Windows 10 (from having used Win 7) and keep it fully updated. It's worth noting here incidentally, that you are actually not forced to do the updates for Win 10 as some are suggesting is the case, they can be manually approved for installation.

So, yeah, FSX-SE and P3D V4.1 run fine on the latest Win 10 in terms of stability, but it's not the magic performance bullet we really need, but if FSX-SE isn't giving you OOMs and you've got it looking good, then you'll have to think long and hard about starting again with the blank canvas of P3D, which will be expensive to paint up when you consider that most of us have been buying add-ons for FSX for about a decade, and that's a lot of money to be suddenly throwing at P3D, which isn't visually that different from FSX-SE apart from maybe the cloud shadows of P3D and airport wet aprons of FSX which are two obvious visual differences of their default look. Having said that, when in the history of flight swimming was it ever any different? We've always had to be getting our hands in our pockets in this hobby, for either hardware, software, or more often than not, both.

Funny thing is, I get better performance in P3d than I do in X-Plane 11.

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, sultanofswing said:

No one is brainwashed into anything so get that out of your head.
LM are introducing new features into the sim, they have some bugs yes but eventually they will be ironed out.  Technology advances and pushing the sim to new levels advances the sim and add on developers also, Without these new features added over time the sim would become stale.

 

Another thing about Windows 7, I loved it.  It was a great OS, but with newer hardware not supporting windows 7 it is getting hard to use it.   Most newer CPU's won't even work with Windows 7 anymore.

OK  whatever you say!  Thanks for reading my opinion. :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, sultanofswing said:

KB4048955 was released today, install that and see if it fixes your issue, I no longer have FSX or p3d V3 installed to test it with.

Thanks - I did install it and it eliminated one issue, one more to figure and I think it is something in the FSX.CFG - that's for tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post

Microsoft has officially dropped FSX support years ago. It does not mean that the simulator won't work in the newer Windows versions, it's just if you have an issue, their support line won't help you.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, Dane Watson said:

Thanks - I did install it and it eliminated one issue, one more to figure and I think it is something in the FSX.CFG - that's for tomorrow.

Perfect, glad you are making progress.

When I moved to PD3V4 I left FSX-SE installed for a while, after I migrated all I wanted I deleted it from my PC.

Simbol 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, simbol said:

Perfect, glad you are making progress.

When I moved to PD3V4 I left FSX-SE installed for a while, after I migrated all I wanted I deleted it from my PC.

Simbol 

Yep, that was my approach. In fact, I put P3DV4 on a separate 1Tb drive. 

However, I still haven't removed FSXSE yet... 

Gary 

Share this post


Link to post

Response today to my issue from DTG...

Hey Dane,

Unfortunately this Windows update has caused issues with some users interactions with FSX. We're looking into this and working with Microsoft on a solution.

Please bear with us whilst this is ongoing, your patience is greatly appreciated.

All the best,

Sam 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, sillyflyer said:

in Windows 10  you have to deal with video driver upgrades shoved down your throat automatically

Not true. It's fairly straightforward to turn off just the automatic driver updates in Windows 10: https://pureinfotech.com/exclude-driver-updates-windows-10/. As an aside, none of my sims, FSX:SE included, have had any issues after installing the Fall Creators Update (1709).

Share this post


Link to post

I first posted this message as I was so frustrated after spending almost two months and six (6) factory resets which included two "clean" resets, several consultations with MSI as well as several consultations with Microsoft - the result was still the same - crashes.

It had nothing to do with add-ons as I had not added or changed anything for at least four months. It had everything to do with Windows 10 VERSION 1709. It is strange though that it does not affect all PC's and even DTG and Microsoft has acknowledged this - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4054150/issues-when-windows-10-fall-creators-update-calls-createwindowex-for-s

Now after all this frustration and after reading what Microsoft suggested I called Microsoft Support again at their highest level (Level 2) and insisted that they download and install VERSION 1607, which they did. So another "clean" factory reset and two days later everything is re-installed as it was four months ago - THE RESULT - NOT ANY ISSUES WHATSOEVER.
By the way the support technician setup my system so no updates will take place until I am assured by reports that version 1709 is now OK.

I STILL PLAN ON PURCHASING P3D V4 IN DECEMBER

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/14/2017 at 5:39 PM, Ray Proudfoot said:

I for one will be keeping P3D v3.4 until FSL Concorde is updated to 64-bit. If it isn’t then that version will remain but at some point I’m more than willing to install P3Dv4.

Whilst having no OOM issues will be wonderful I still have concerns over performance if sliders are all pushed to the right and resolution is increased to 4K. That will impact on performance quite substantially.

The ‘old witch’ isn’t FSX, it’s Windows 10 which I will only install through gritted teeth. I detest not having control over updates.

I don't have the Concorde, but I am keeping version 3.4 and probably will for a long time, because it works and works well. I can't remember the last time it crashed, maybe a year and a half ago , and that was due to an add on.

Share this post


Link to post
On 15/11/2017 at 6:48 AM, some1 said:

Microsoft has officially dropped FSX support years ago. It does not mean that the simulator won't work in the newer Windows versions, it's just if you have an issue, their support line won't help you.

 

 

 

Did they ever?! My, admittedly, limited experience with MS Support was to solve issues by recommending the end user reinstall Windows! I gave up on them a long long time ago. They were never prepared to spend an appropriate amount of time conducting a methodical troubleshoot. It may be I was unfortunate in that on each occasion I encountered an employee whose standard of training fell far short of what one would regard as being reasonably acceptable. 

Actually they are far from being alone. I can name another - ASUS! They design and make great hardware but their level of Support expertise has been found sadly wanting. Again, this has been my experience gleaned from only a couple of encounters. Still, it was enough to discourage me from trying them again. Instead I prefer to muddle along by myself and I have NEVER had to reinstall Windows!

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
On 15/11/2017 at 5:36 AM, sillyflyer said:

Prepar3D will not be moving to DirectX 12 anytime soon and if you do not have any need for DX12 games, I suggest you hang onto Windows7 as long as you can.

Seriously..   if you are satisfied with your Flight sim install be it FSX box, FSXse,.. and are running SkyLake processor or under please do not let this forum or Microsoft steer you sideways. Stay with what works and it isn't Windows10 with P3D, well, that's another subject. Be ready to buy new hardware for literally nothing if you have a good/stable Flightsim FSX/FSXSe install today, or..  stay with Windows7 x64 and not be bothered with the Microsoft Windows10 drama for a few more years.

 

 

Well said, Sir! I decided on Windows 7 Pro 64bit as the core engine for my latest build a couple of years ago. That decision has proven to be the wise one as I couldn't be happier. I have no desire to upgrade further hardware-wise as what I have delivers near absolute stability, minimal issues, and all the performance I am ever likely to need in the foreseeable future. Windows 7 remains very popular and continues to receive full support by 3rd Party Developers. This is likely to continue until early 2020 and possibly even beyond.

If we are honest, Windows 10 currently offers very little that is genuinely new and needed by the average user. Think Microsoft Office and ask yourself how much you actually require or in fact use? After all, and to be blunt, my understanding is that Windows 10 is an amalgam of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 plus the addition of a few (user friendly?) bells an whistles. Windows 8.1 proved to be unpopular whereas Windows 7, arguably, may turn out to be recognised as the best operating system to have come out of Redmond, Washington. Windows 10 is capitalising on that success and may well be the last to appear...thankfully!

I may well follow the flock and update to Windows 10 someday. Right now it is just not a necessary imperative to enjoy to the full and exploit (hardware aside) what is currently being offered on the world's digital market shelves. 

Far be it for me to hinder technology's march of progress. That needs to continue despite anything we may say. However, for many of us, attaining a level of contentment for what we have makes it perfectly reasonable to suspend that compulsion for constant upgrading. Try it, that sense of relief and freedom is wonderful!

Regards,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now