That reminds me of that the ASA's IP Trainer program. IT was written, I don't know how long ago. I love the content but its a closed program. It uses a properatary hardware for Avionics. It has no open API. I have given up on the program's upgrade. Maybe the original programmer who wrote this left ASA and no one knows the code properly to update it I suspect. and ASA keeps selling it cause it is a very good program even if its not updated.If Fsim X goes that way... yeah..the add ons will pile up and and I could still use it to the end of time.... until someone somewhere comes up with a new FSim.;)Manny

IMHO...PC gaming isn't going to disappear...at least not before PC's do. Consider World of Warcraft (a PC only game) is selling in the vicinity of 5.5 to 6 million....it's floating Vivendi pretty high. Who's going to turn their back on that?The FS franchise is a golden goose as far as gaming goes. We've never seen an official sales figure...but I'd say many guesses are low-balling it....never mind we're on version 10.I'd compare an FS user to an EA sports user...rather than a gamer. Many people enjoy (and buy)EA sports games that don't consider themselves gamers. Hardcore gamers don't get flight sim. (missions or no missions) It's the people that are afflicted with romantic notions about flying that can be tempt to buy FS :-halo ....gamer or non-gamer. Danny

Yep, just about 5 years ago, we had Fly!, SimPilot and Flight Unlimited and, back then, they were really good and strong competitors with features (and graphics) that were far superior to FS. They all died.Fly! has been my all-time favorite.

I totally agree with Jason. All the extra stuff they put in to attract new users won't bother me a bit ( what was being referred to was some of the 'missions' -- even most of the ones being talked about were made specifically FOR the convention where FSX was displayed -- ie they won't be in the retail sim ). I plan on doing the same flights I do today. Some GA and mainly heavy iron. I'll fly it on VATSIM just as I do now, but with more eye candy and hopefully more features. I see nothing but a positive thing coming from FSX. The negative posts hold no water IMHO. In fact, they're all speculation because the 'display' at the convention was nothing more than an early early Alpha build and definately NOT optimized.Anyhow, I'm ready for FSX. It will be awesome. :)

"The decline of PC games on the shelves is partially to blame on EBGames/Gamestop."Ok, take a deep breath and think about that for a minute.From a shareholder's point of view, over the last few years, GameStop has KILLED. We made a huge profit on it.GameStop is not in the business of preserving shelf space for the sake of tradition. If it were not in their best interest to change their stores to accommodate the demands of their customers, they wouldn't do it.It's not their fault at all - the "blame" rests fully on the customer. ;)IMO and as it's been said before, drawing "next-gen" gamers to Flight Simulator is good for everyone!There's always someone whining about something, and always someone else whining about the whiners.... I'd love to have flawless ATC that understands SIDs and STARs, realistic radio interference, windshield scratches, full systems modeling... etc... but not at the cost of an audience whose size (and financial contribution toward FS) diminishes its likelihood of being around for a while.---Andrew

I'm still trying to figure out when FS wasn't marketed towards casual users? FS9 has lessons and a slider for easy or realistic flight models among other easy/hard parameters and a large, detailed help section for beginners. I saw commercials for Century of Flight which seemed to tout the glory of flying, not sids and stars, ATC etc, which, in my opinion, seemed to push it towards anyone interested in flyhing or the golden days of flight.I haven't seen any commercials or advertisements for FSX yet so I'm still not sure who the target audience its, but I would assume it is to anyone interested in aviation or flying; pilots, student pilots, anyone who has ever looked skyward at the sound of an airplane, someone who just wants to see if they can land a 747.PC games are doing well by the way, nearly 60 million in sales for May not including downloadable games, console games outsold them as they always will, but the pc market is still alive for now.Ian.

FSX will be better...yes, but you can't argue with the statement below. >The best thing that could happen is that if another developer>came out with a "real" flight sim that challenged FSX.It pretty much sums up the way business works. Competition is the key to faster inovation and better products, there is no denying it. Just look at how the technology of today came about, alot of it was born out of major world wars. The aviation industry in particular wouldn't be where it is today without the rise of the major European (World) wars of the 20th century. If a non MSFS software company came out with a flightsim that met all the desires of the enthusiasts tomorrow, you can count on Microsoft attempting to produce something 10 times better. I believe FSX would be even better if there was another competitor. MSFS have us all wrapped around there little finger. If MSFS does neglect the desires of the hardcore enthusiasts, which I don't think they're stupid enough to do that, there will be someone else to take advantage of this significant market. Perhaps if the fear of flightsimming losing its realism becomes true, it might do good in the way of other competition, thus better flightsimming product. But I don't see that on the horizon yet. CheersTristan

Consider World of Warcraft (a PC only game) is selling in the vicinity of 5.5 to 6 million....it's floating Vivendi pretty high. Who's going to turn their back on that? AH don't forget my favorite GUILD WARS ;-), much better than WOW and it's free online play..................Randy J. Smith................CAUTION! My views represent no one but my own. While I do help companies test products - this in no way means I represent them in ANY fashion.[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

you know what i wish , i wish that misrosoft and x-plane got toghether, man what a sim that would be.

Maybe it's time to -in a manner of speaking- think "outside the (x)Box"?It wouldn't be the end of the world if FS X or other installments would come out only for the XBOX 360. ricardo

Imagine the fire it would plant in microsoft if an alternative flight sim caught fire and it ran only/best on Linux or for some reason required the Firefox browser ...

A few random thoughts:* Microsoft reps have expressed their continued dedication to the FS series on multiple occasions, but with every version that comes out we hear the bells of doom start clanging in these forums about the future.* I welcome any new features in FSX, whether they are something I will use or not. I haven't seen anything they are taking away to provide the mission-based stuff. Also, the ability to create missions is a potential boost (depending on the flexibility of the scripting) to some popular add-ons that focus on carrying passengers and completing flight assignment.* Flight simmers can get pretty elitist, turning up their nose at the "kids" playing Xbox. I am in my 40's, and started gaming when Pong was the height of technology. Our family has an Xbox, 360, PS2, Nintendo Gamecube, 3 (count 'em!) Nintendo DS's, multiple PC's, etc. I enjoy sitting on the couch and playing the 360 with my kids, and I enjoy occasionally taking a leisurely flight in FS9 (I've got hundreds of dollars worth of add-ons). I'm a gamer, open to all sorts of games, and I would hope people can refrain from further use of the word "kiddies" or "idiots" in the same sentence as "Xbox"* On that note, I seriously doubt we will see a console version of FS any time soon, but I would be interested in this approach (and I am sure it would only be an alternative to, not a replacement of, a PC version). Heck, if nothing else it would be great to fly without worrying about constantly trying to optimize my settings.* For many years, the FS team has given us a quality sim that puts the entire bloomin' world on a disc. That amazes me every time I fly. It amazes me that it works at all. They've kept the structure of the game open-ended in support of the community, and they've continued to offer substantive improvements in features and graphics. Cheers to them.

I agree with most of your points. But if Microsoft is so dedicated to the PC market (as you imply and someone else has claimed) why isn't Halo 2 available for PC????????I think there are currently three generations of gamers:1) The teens and twentysomethings. Play consoles almost exclusively. If they play PC based games it'll mostly be multiplayer (Counterstrike, Battlefield, Unreal Tournament, etc.).2) The "in between" gaming generation, guys like you and me, in their thirties and fourties. I've been gaming all my life, own consoles, and would have no problem accepting FS on a console, provided, of course, the console is hooked up to a state of the art entertainment system and allows usb controllers to be hooked up. I see no reason why Microsoft cannot implement something like Valve's steam delivery system via XBOX Live!3) The third generation is the one you'll find most heavily represented in the flight sim community: people in advanced middle age who are not familiar with the console market, "hardcore" flight simmers who throw a crapfit each time someone mentions the words "console" "arcade" and "flight simulation" in one sentence. ricardo

Well, I've been using FS since c-64 days, had pong and the atari 2600 as a kid and enjoy all sorts of computer entertainment no matter what the source. I own a 360 and believe it is another step closer to the merging of the pc and console entertainment, which I welcome to be honest. One piece of equipment to handle all the needs provided by the PC ex: Internet, finance software, Excel, Access, programming etc... and gaming, all veiwable either on the main television in the house or a secondary television/monitor.Why the gaming/console/PC industry has not done this already is beyond me as the technology of the PC outpaces the consoles, nearly everyone who ownes a console also owns a PC I would assume, why not just bloody well merge the 2, a PC type console that is upgradeable and easy to produce at an affordable price with a wireless keyboard, mouse and internet which connects to a digital TV?Cell phones have already done it, why not Microsoft or Sony? Destroy the perception of separation, that using a pc must be done at a desk with a monitor, and console use on a tv. With digital TV becoming the standard I think it's time. Would save me a hec of alot of money to buy one system instead of 2 or 3.Just some thoughts. :)Ian.

>Technically "real" flight sims are those by Elite & CAE etc. >Taking Elite products, they are quite different animals from>MSFS. I doubt most who love MSFS will even like Elite stuff.>>JasonSpeaking of which, CAE has made publicly known in the local press (Montreal) this week that they have a dedicated team of people looking at porting their simulation capabilities into a "game" that could compete against FSX.It would potentially blow some socks off if they proceed.--M(I read this in printed stuff (Les Affaires) - can't find an online quote right now)