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Drumcode

Default (Carenado) Bonanza A36

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Tried to take it up the mountains yesterday, took off from KBJC and it would not go higher than 8900 feet, it would struggle and loose torque, stalled on me twice just west of Boulder, am I doing something wrong? I loaded a flight from one the Chicago area airfields and it would fly like a champ. Is there a certain way to fly these in the Rockies? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Drumcode

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How were you setting your mixture, manifold pressure and rpm?

Also, what were your payload and fuel load?

Lastly, what were the weather conditions?

All of these have an affect on a/c performance.

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Did you lean the mixture as you went higher?  FSX/P3D is very sensitive to this..

Also push the H key to turn on carb heat..

 

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I will check the mixture and turn on the carb heat and report back. Thank you, I am only just slowly getting into the GA's and never took A36 this high up.

Edited by Drumcode

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The default A36 isn't really realistic...  I'd suggest an A2A plane... like the Comanche or Skylane.  Or the Justflight Arrow, or Milviz C310 (so many options)

But what the above posters submitted is correct... probably mixture not set correctly.

Edited by ryanbatcund
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1 hour ago, Drumcode said:

I will check the mixture and turn on the carb heat and report back. Thank you, I am only just slowly getting into the GA's and never took A36 this high up.

The carb heat switch is called "Prop De-Ice" in the panel..

If you push the H-key you will see it move..

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9 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

The default A36 isn't really realistic...  I'd suggest an A2A plane... like the Comanche or Skylane.  Or the Justflight Arrow, or Milviz C310 (so many options)

But what the above posters submitted is correct... probably mixture not set correctly.

It's new to me that the Justflight Arrow or the Milviz C310 have corrected the totally wrong FSX/P3D mixture simulation either.

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Yup, that sure was it, I've tried all sorts of different mixture settings and all I was able to get out of it was 125kts headed for Steamboat Springs. I think I am going to pick up the Skylane from A2A, thank you for the suggestion.

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Typical Carenado, switch labelled prop de-ice is actually pitot heat! You think LM would've made them fix that though, perhaps they aren't aware.

Edited by ckyliu

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6 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Typical Carenado, switch labelled prop de-ice is actually pitot heat! 

Typical Carenado/Alabeo bashing as this statement is plain and simple wrong. Shift-H is pitot heat and the switch moves accordingly.

By default H is carb heat / engine anti-ice. I don't see anything seriously wrong if they tie the prop de-ice to the engine anti-ice,.

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@J35OE Because presumably there's an actual carb heat switch in the cockpit that doesn't do anything? And thus the carb heat isn't on when you think it is, so the engine dies and ruins your flight for no obvious reason. I'd call that wrong. Many are probably not aware or use the H shortcut (I myself wasn't until just now).

Prop de-ice is not carb heat or engine anti-ice. Well, unless you're in a Carenado it would seem. There's no excuse for it, it's just shoddy workmanship, it's not complicated and frankly I can't believe anyone is trying to defend it! It'd be like a car with a switch that says "Rear heated window" doing nothing and finding out it's tied to the heated seats instead.

Yes I made a typo earlier, I meant carb heat rather than pitot heat. Carenado have even managed to confuse me 😂

Edited by ckyliu

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On 7/23/2018 at 11:44 PM, Bert Pieke said:

Did you lean the mixture as you went higher?  FSX/P3D is very sensitive to this..

Also push the H key to turn on carb heat..

 

P3D is not sensitive regarding leaning, it simulates it completely wrong. Don't really know what the problem is here, since the first thing I do when I install or update P3D is to delete all default airplanes 😛

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4 hours ago, ckyliu said:

1. Because presumably there's an actual carb heat switch in the cockpit that doesn't do anything?

2. And thus the carb heat isn't on when you think it is, so the engine dies and ruins your flight for no obvious reason.

1.Maybe you are talking about a different airplane? I didn't find a carb heat switch, but I wouldn't expect one since this the IO-520 is a fuel injected engine. 

2.So you are experiencing icing conditions and its effects and you aren't even trying the only switch in the cockpit that says 'de-icing'?

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1) Ah yes, that infamous FSX oversight; fuel injected but still has carb icing (you'd think LM would've fixed that in P3D by now). Although there is a fairly simple fix that you'd reasonably expect payware developer worth their salt would implement; https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/3xcu7o/fsx_models_carb_icing_in_fuel_injected_aircraft/ They could even have carb heat on at all times and just increase engine horsepower a little to compensate.

2) In icing conditions, yes I would use prop de-ice. But you don't need icing conditions to get carburettor icing because of the venturi effect, humid moderately warm air is enough (icing conditions are defined as the presence of visible moisture, for GA between +5 and -15c but it varies between aircraft types). Indeed, the aircraft I have flown in reality are not certified for flight into known icing but still come equipped with carb heat. It certainly wouldn't cross my mind to use prop de-ice to resolve carb icing in a fuel injected or water cooled engine! And the symptoms are not the same.

Edited by ckyliu

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You still haven't answered the question where the carb heat switch is in the A36. If you are loosing power in the A36 in FSX/P3D, how do you know if its carb or prop icing? 

So you rather accept the power loss and descend because your 'expected' icing conditions aren't met instead of using anti/de-ice equipment? IRL as well?

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You just told me the A36 is fuel injected, so it won't have a carb heat switch! It shouldn't be carb icing because there isn't a carb, but I already discussed in my previous post how that's an FSX/P3D issue and the fixes most developers have implemented.

In carb icing, the engine is effectively suffocating and there's a noticeable drop in RPM usually coupled with a drop in EGT as the engine is now rich of peak; you can confirm carb icing suspicion by leaning the mixture a little to see if that fixes the issue (this doesn't work in FSX/P3D iirc), then naturally you shove the carb heat on (always full, never partial!) and perhaps descend to warmer air like you described if you're in real trouble (but of course if the engine is going to die completely you then have less altitude through which to glide).

You wouldn't get that the leaning and EGT behaviour with prop icing alone since the engine is happy, and I can't conceive of a situation where you'd get prop icing without visible moisture, which in turn would lead to visible icing on the wing's leading edges (assuming they are also unprotected at the time). What you get with prop-icing is vibration and some engine roughness caused by propeller imbalance (again, the aircraft I have flown were not certified for flight in to known icing so they don't have de-ice equipment and I needed to get out of icing conditions pronto).

In short, if I had prop icing I'd get all the anti-ice on and consider descending, but if I had solely carb icing symptoms generally I'd just pop the carb heat on and then panic if it hadn't resolved after a few minutes; unless it's fuel injected then I'd probably be planning for complete engine failure since the intake is often heated (by oil or engine water cooling), my other thoughts would be fuel line icing, in either case yes I would typically descend.

Edited by ckyliu

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26 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

You just told me the A36 is fuel injected, so it won't have a carb heat switch! 

You must be joking since the whole discussion started because it was you who wrote: Typical Carenado, switch labelled prop de-ice is actually pitot heat!   and   I meant carb heat rather than pitot heat.

 

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Okay I feel we need a little clarity here:

1) The sim aircraft suffers from carb icing although it shouldn't because it's fuel injected, this is a known FSX/P3D bug.

2) Carenado have repurposed the prop de-ice switch to provide carb heat, but they haven't relabelled it; this is confusing to users as carb heat is not the same feature and is not used at all the same times prop de-ice is (as discussed at length previously). In fact the only reason we know what the switch does is because some users pressed the H shortcut key and noticed the prop-deice switch moving. A simple relabelling of the switch would have fixed that, however...

3) Other payware developers of fuel injected aircraft seem to either program carb heat to come on automatically when required (essentially invisible to the user and easily done, I already posted XML code up for this) or remain on constantly and then adjust engine horsepower to account for this. A payware developer who isn't doing one of those two invisible solutions is doing shoddy work.

We can ignore my mention of pitot heat which was a mistake I didn't spot within the time window permitted for editing posts. I of course meant carb heat, as you are well aware.

Edited by ckyliu

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6 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

 A simple relabelling of the switch would have fixed that, however…

So you want Carenado to relabel the prop de-ice switch to carb heat? Something the A36 doesn't have? Can you image how many Carenado/Alabeo bashers will immediately point out this 'basic error'? Sorry, but this discussion is going nowhere. I'm out.

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No, I want Carenado to do what any half decent developer does, which I outlined above in point 3 and you willfully ignored; so at least we can agree this discussion is going nowhere.

I can't understand why you're so defensive of this/them, it's not like such a simple fix is beyond them or would affect the price point. It's hardly "bashing" pointing out such an oversight.

Edited by ckyliu

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