Ephedrin

"ATM calculations not possible yet"

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"TO-1, TO-2 and Assumed Temperature calculations will be implemented in a future update"

 

I thought this was one of the great features of the -8 and the EFB? 

While I obviously know that PMDG never give release dates... Can you tell us ANYthing about this?

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Robert answered to this yesterday so you might find the topic easy enough.  Regardless, what is missing is the $400,000/year recurring cost for the data.  There is simply no way to provide this based on authentic data and not price the product out of most everyone's reach.

I find the TO alone useful, there are times when one cannot takeoff with given conditions on a given runway even with TO power and 20 flaps. This in itself is good to have... happened to me the other day trying to depart KSDF in a UPS B748F with wet runway.  Also I find the Landing calculations very handy in determining the best setting for braking.  So all in all, I share your disappointment but real world interfered here.

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24 minutes ago, downscc said:

Robert answered to this yesterday so you might find the topic easy enough

If it was answered in one of those 'n' pages long teaser threads, no.. I won't search for it in there.. But I have seen a topic about PFPX profiles. 

TOPCAT has had a profile for the 744 that matches very well with the PMDG 744. Given that this data must have come from somewhere and given the circumstance that PMDG has advertised the 748 with its great new feature "EFB" to show charts and do performance calculations, I am sure they will find a way to implement calculations for one of THE main features of this EFB in the real world. That's what it actually is used for and no airline in the world is going to take off with full thrust (TO-1 and TO-1 might be optional, but not assumed temp) with a load of 25t of fuel and 200pax. Sure, we can guess a temperature, but that's definitely not the way PMDG aircraft are meant to be flown.

 

All required data is actually available. What do they have to pay for? the engine data is there, it's simulated. The weather is there, it's filled in. The runway length and elevation comes from the sim. 

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1 minute ago, Ephedrin said:

All required data is actually available. What do they have to pay for? the engine data is there, it's simulated. The weather is there, it's filled in. The runway length and elevation comes from the sim. 

This isn't all of the equation. I have a feeling you know this.

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and you know that people bought the expansion for the EFB's calculation. So now? 

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Hi Marc... the profiles that you find in topcat or pfpx are nothing more than bootlegged copies of some company data.  PMDG is not going to use data of that nature, they require that like all the systems simulation that it be authentic data.  The big pole in the tent is the obstacle clearance data for those engine out scenarios.

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Dan,

I personally don't care if the calculated assumed temperatur is 55 or 56°C. And if the resulting N1 value is 90.6 or 90.9. But it's a difference if I have an announced function/value available at all or if I have to guess it like the Flex temp in the year 200* when the MD-11 came out and noone was prepared for this system depth. 

And while I actually hate these posts like "I have paid xyz Dollars and nothing works out of the box" I must say I am more than just a bit flabbergasted that I pay a PMDG price for an expansion that was teased over months with a function that is actually available for the base model (not from PMDG, yes, but still close enough for a simulator pilot) and now with the hyped EFB onboard I can play Capt Kirk...
 

Quote

 

"Then, I will try to make the best 'guess' I can!"

-Spock-

 

 

Edited by Ephedrin
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I gotta say I share your disappointment, Marc. I understand the commercial implications for making such a design decision, sadly this leaves somewhat of a sweet n sour taste in my mouth about getting the -8 expansion, as it's very unlikely we'll be able to find a tool to get (at least close to the real thing) performance values, like what we have in the very outdated and far from perfect TOPCAT.

I was honestly hoping we'd be getting a "self-contained" simulation for the performance side of the EFB. This, by the way, could mean it'll be the same restriction for the 777 (when it gets the EFB treatment) and the MAX.

Not PMDG fault, I reckon, just wished they could have provided "close" values for "performance simulation purposes".

cheers

-E

Edited by evaamo

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6 minutes ago, evaamo said:

Not PMDG fault, I reckon, just wished they could have provided "close" values for "performance simulation purposes".

I wouldn't be surprised if their license with Boeing may restrict how data is fabricated, as if it may misrepresent Boeing data.  In my opinion the ATM is the real disappointment.  Realistically one is rarely going to use a derate.  Everything else is in the EFB.

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Marc,

Although I recognize that ATM and derate calculations are one of the most important features of the EFB, I think your complaints are a bit unfair.

You get an EFB that has a fully functional terminal charts application, fully functional dispatch and enroute landing performance calculations, fully functional Weight & Balance calculations, a complete document library application plus the pilot utilities and from the takeoff calculations ATM/derates are missing but we have committed that they WILL BE AVAILABLE later. You also get the ND airport map (practically an EFB function in other aircraft like the 777 and the NGX). And all this is just for the EFB. As you will find out the 747-8 expansion has several other updates, improvements and features, let alone the aircraft type differences (different type of engines, flight dynamics, systems, etc.)

Of course you have every right to feel all these are not worth what you paid for, but I feel this statement is not fair.

 

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11 minutes ago, downscc said:

I wouldn't be surprised if their license with Boeing may restrict how data is fabricated, as if it may misrepresent Boeing data.

Didn't think of that one, Dan. Sounds very plausible tho'. Licencing is always a complex issue, I'm sure that when it comes to aviation-related branding stuff, it's even more complicated. Thanks

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19 minutes ago, mfrantz said:

Marc,

Although I recognize that ATM and derate calculations are one of the most important features of the EFB, I think your complaints are a bit unfair.

You get an EFB that has a fully functional terminal charts application, fully functional dispatch and enroute landing performance calculations, fully functional Weight & Balance calculations, a complete document library application plus the pilot utilities and from the takeoff calculations ATM/derates are missing but we have committed that they WILL BE AVAILABLE later. You also get the ND airport map (practically an EFB function in other aircraft like the 777 and the NGX). And all this is just for the EFB. As you will find out the 747-8 expansion has several other updates, improvements and features, let alone the aircraft type differences (different type of engines, flight dynamics, systems, etc.)

Of course you have every right to feel all these are not worth what you paid for, but I feel this statement is not fair.

 

That is great news and new news as far as I can tell, unless I missed it somewhere!!  Thanks for clarifying. 

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Michael, 

my dissapointment is not the airplane itself, neither is it the missing calculation function in a technical ("developable") aspect. I have already experimented a bit with the airport map at Aerosoft's Frankfurt airport and it works great. And I definitely love all the new features. Rainmaker is beautiful btw!. What honestly fears me and annoys me is the way the EFB features were communicated here in the forum, beta testers and dev team members have been all around and I have not seen one person to tell anyone at any time until yesterday (please correct me) that it won't be able to calculate what has been talked about and has been hyped for months. It seems that yesterday someone said it wouldn't be available (yet) and people tried to find a solution with topcat profiles and pfpx. I obviously have seen the statement in the EFB and the intro manual but tbh, we all know the story about the promised J41 for FSX-SE that has been hushed up and deleted from the OP center without a single word and a lot of avoidance in the forums. 

I love PMDG for their know-how and the level of detail and system depth. But the communication and the way to handle promised (or words that are obviously understood as a promise) updates/features/etc that were dropped is something that makes me (and very likely many others) be skeptical when I see something like "will be added later". Right now I rather expect that this page will disappear.. silently, suddenly, accidentally... it might not sound fair, but is the truth for now. But still, as said above, I hope that you'll find a way to bring it up in an update.

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Marc,

I share your disappointment, but I find that the complexity and general visuals of their aircraft overshadow this piece. Yes we want things realistic, but some things are just not achievable. For example all manufacturers for private jets wont ever release their data.

 

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Just now, Jeff Nielsen said:

That is great news and new news as far as I can tell, unless I missed it somewhere!!  Thanks for clarifying.  

Not new news at all.

It is stated clearly in the message displayed on the EFB and also in the EFB Manual that:

"TO-1, TO-2 and Assumed Temperature calculations will be implemented in a future update"

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