PMDG Expansion 747-8 or QW 787

[Chock 17,769]

4 hours ago, ErichB said:

I think PMDG will keep the fleet of Boeings current on every version of P3DNext until they see a drop off in sales numbers - like with the MD-11.  I very much doubt we will see an Airbus from them anytime soon.  The 737 MAX and a remake of the 7378 has been confirmed .  Mr Randazzo is also a classics fan - i'm pretty sure his DC3 will be next in line.  I think PMDG also sell their software to airlines and training facilities so they will keep producing what drives demand there, I guess

I too think that PMDG will eventually have a stab at a DC-3. I have to say that the prospect of a DC-3 done to that level of detail would be a no-brainer purchase for me, and I would imagine a lot of other people too. Of course to PMDG it would depend on how they did with their DC-6 to at least some extent from a sales analysis standpoint, rather than a head over heart decision, but as far as I'm aware their DC-6 sold pretty well. It's either them or A2A; one of 'em's gonna do it sooner or later, and in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind which, they're both companies capable of doing a great job of something like that.

 

 

[pracines 823]

8 hours ago, joemiller said:

similar top quality products and the prices are no where near PMDG

I disagree, PMDG is in a class all by themselves. It is not just the product, its the customer care, technical support, and community interaction/communication.

Hi Fi Technologies and Flightbeam are similar (in a class all by themselves) in their respective categories. 

 

[por930 51]

3 hours ago, joemiller said:

Agree, the MD-11 was outstanding (and still is for the FSXers). I love that aircraft. It's a real pity they discontinue it. 

It is the main reason I keep my FSX machine sitting under my desk connected to my main 32" screen, along with my P3D machine. The MD11, is some bird. Sure pretty old coding and methods by todays standard, but it still gives me a thrill when she lifts off..

Great you went the 787 direction. She is fun to fly with different aspects peculiar to the 787, and QW are steadily bringing out hotpack and updates...

[por930 51]

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

That is a deal breaker for me. Saved panel states are (IMO) essential for high quality payware airliners in P3D (but not like the TFDi option).

I think they are essential in any quality(low/medium or high) payware..Long haul birds like a 787 need a 'simple' way of saving the flight. As yet, QW have not worked out how to do this, or at least, not put out a reliable method of doing it that I know of.

[dave2013 1,130]

I would opt for the 787 as it is a very popular airliner and its use will only increase over time.  The 747s on the other hand are mainly only used for cargo any more.

After I switch to P3Dv4 or v5, I plan to immediately purchase the QW787, the IFLY 737 series, and Aerosoft's Airbus series.  If IFLY had the 777 I would buy that one from them as well, but unfortunately I may end up having to pay full price to PMDG for the P3D 777 even though I already own the FSX version. 

As for the classics like the DC-3 and DC-6, there are already very high quality freeware versions of both these aircraft, especially the DC-3. 

I think it's important to support payware developers who make high quality products at a reasonable price and who's business practices are fair.

Dave

Edited September 28, 2018 by dave2013
Added some words

[joemiller 269]

25 minutes ago, pracines said:

I disagree, PMDG is in a class all by themselves. It is not just the product, its the customer care, technical support, and community interaction/communication.

Hi Fi Technologies and Flightbeam are similar (in a class all by themselves) in their respective categories. 

 

Well, Paul in that case many could argue the same point that they are in a class all by themselves: Aerosoft, FSL, Flytampa, ORBX, REX, Angry-dog, etc, etc. and etc.  

[joemiller 269]

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I would opt for the 787 as it is a very popular airliner and its use will only increase over time.  The 747s on the other hand are mainly only used for cargo any more.

After I switch to P3Dv4 or v5, I plan to immediately purchase the QW787, the IFLY 737 series, and Aerosoft's Airbus series.  If IFLY had the 777 I would buy that one from them as well, but unfortunately I may end up having to pay full price to PMDG for the P3D 777 even though I already own the FSX version. 

As for the classics like the DC-3 and DC-6, there are already very high quality freeware versions of both these aircraft, especially the DC-3. 

I think it's important to support payware developers who make high quality products at a reasonable price and who's business practices are fair.

Dave

That last sentence says it All. 

[fwerff 70]

I'd go with the QW 787. Mainly because I feel the 748 is overpriced and is to some extend 'more of the same' compared to the 744. Yes I know the 748 has a lot of improvements borrowed from the 787, but in the end it's just a 747 (albeit a very big one). SOP are very similar between the 744 and 748 (can be flown with the same typerating after completing a difference course).

The QW 787 on the other hand will be an entirely new operating and flying experience. And also by buying it you'll support a relatively small developer who makes a real good effort at bringing us a very complex airliner.

On a personal note; I'm starting to get a bit annoyed by the arrogance and attitude of PMDG. In the past it was somewhat justified since PMDG was the benchmark for high-end addons. Nowadays we've got several other developers who are able to produce very high-end aircraft and often sell them at a lower price. Leonardo, TFDi, FSLabs (okay, that one doesn't classify as "lower price") come to mind. But also if you'd just take a small step down from "high-end", Aerosoft with their A320 series and CaptainSim with their 757 are very descent addons with provide a lot of fun flying them.

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, pracines said:

PMDG is in a class all by themselves.

Yes, they are in a class of their own, and not in a good way.

And most of that is actually not their own fault either, it's that lots of people continue to insist on blowing sunshine up their @ss as though they're the only ones who can make a decent simulation of an airliner. People have done this - to a lesser extent - with FSL too, although FSL did kind of shoot themselves up the @ss a bit a while back and managed to put a bit of a dent in their own reputation with all that DRM malarkey lol.

PMDG absolutely can indeed make some brilliant stuff and some of their output has really set benchmarks over the years, not least their most recent FSX 747-400, which I have to say was nothing short of a masterpiece in terms of VAS management and was good value too, but the days when they were the only company doing that kind of are long gone. It is the drive of competition from other developers making similarly good products which is keeping PMDG products up there, not some magic elixir which only they have tasted.

Look at the Majestic Q400 for example, even the super-duper Pro Edition of that is only £59.99. It is as good as anything PMDG or FSL have produced, yet it comes in at nearly half the price of the FSL A320 and nearly half the price of the PMDG 747-400 (both of which are over £100.00), and the Q400's price even drops to just 40.00 quid - which genuinely is less than half the price of those other products -  if you go for the standard version of it as opposed to the Pro one. That's coming down to fairly near the kind of prices Just Flight and Carenado charge for considerably lighter treatments of simulated aeroplanes for something that is in every sense of the phrase, a study sim as much as that FSL 320 and PMDG 747 are, and perhaps even moreso, since the circuit breakers actually work on that Q400.

Seriously 'PMDG or nothing' fans, I agree with you that PMDG is a great developer, but you really need to step away from the Kool Aid. 😉

Edited September 28, 2018 by Chock

[ErichB 3,643]

16 minutes ago, Chock said:

Look at the Majestic Dash 8 Q400 for example, even the super-duper Pro Edition of that is only £59.99. It is as good as anything PMDG or FSL have produced, yet it comes in at nearly half the price of the FSL A320 and nearly half the price of the PMDG 747-400

I think this aircraft type (Q400) is probably alot more price sensitive than the 744    People might want a good Dash-8 but I think that its general appeal as an aircraft is nowhere near that of a 744 and they probably cannot get away with as high a pricing point as PMDG can with the 744.   Therefore to appeal to a broader revenue base, you'll have to come in at a lower price point.   I don't think it's really about ethics or fairness in this case - just sensible business

[Chock 17,769]

18 minutes ago, ErichB said:

I think this aircraft type (Q400) is probably alot more price sensitive than the 744    People might want a good Dash-8 but I think that its general appeal as an aircraft is nowhere near that of a 744 and they probably cannot get away with as high a pricing point as PMDG can with the 744.   Therefore to appeal to a broader revenue base, you'll have to come in at a lower price point.   I don't think it's really about ethics or fairness in this case - just sensible business

Not sure I agree with that, A Q400 is a short range aeroplane, and it's a lot easier to fit a simulated  flight into your busy life with one of those than it is with an intercontinental behemoth like the 747 or A380. Add-ons are expensive, and it isn't people on the breadline who can afford them and the computer hardware necessary to run them, but that usually means they have to drag their @ss to work too. So a short range bird is something which fits that lifestyle a bit better. you could literally do five realistic Dash Eight flights in the time a 747 takes to complete one.

Now in fairness to PMDG, that is in fact one of the reasons why I thought their 747-400 base package was pretty good value in the wider sense, since it included the 400D variant, which is a short range high density version, but generally speaking, the 747-400 is a 'fit one flight in per night bird' if you are working for a living. Dash 8s get turned around in 25 minutes at most airports and then they're off earning revenue again, this is ideal for busy flight simmers, actually, the 737 and the A320 also get turned around in that time too on occasion, so these too offer that benefit to simmers. Yes the 747-400 is a prestigious aeroplane to pilot in the real world of an airline pilot career, but I'm not sure all that kudos transfers to a PC-based sim version of it.

Back on the original topic, I think this aspect of things is perhaps a tick box on the '787 versus 747 chart' which definitely has to go in the 787 column.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Chock

[Bob Scott 7,721]

OK, now back to the topic (QW787 or PMDG 748).  I haven't availed myself of the QW787 yet because of a lot of rumbling still going on about CTDs--in fact their last update includes an optional crash tracking module, which says something a bit ominous about the current state of things.  Still waiting (hoping) for it to mature, because life is too short to be battling CTDs, which I can count on one hand since I first installed P3D v4.  The 747-8 brings in a variation of the same advanced avionics as the 787, but with all the familiar common trappings of a PMDG add-on.  So for me, lack of a learning curve on things like flight planner-FMC integration, door and ground equipment operation, etc was a plus.  Add that PMDG's beta testing process is as rigorous as it gets in our hobby, and they're Johnny on the spot when a serious bug does emerge after a release, even if just for a handful of folks.

I also have the Q400...it's a great add-on, but it was never any sort of an alternative to a 747, a 777, a 737, or an A320.  If I were resource-constrained and had to pick just one advanced add-on of any type it'd be the PMDG 737NGX series (800/900 and 600/700 expansion), as they're viable options for legs from short hops to short intercontinental ranges.  For a long-range jet, if I had to choose only one, it'd be the PMDG 747 series (744 and 748 expansion), because it includes both cargo and pax variants, and between the 744 with older CRT displays and the 748 with all of its bells and whistles, has a good cross-section of options to mix it up a little if you get bored.

One other point--I also tend towards the PMDG birds because of the ability to run a remote FMS CDU on an iPad using Marc Foti's most excellent Remote CDU software.  I have a pair of iPad 2 tablets I bought used that are dedicated to this purpose and, unfortunately, there's no option to use them with the QW787.  In addition to the PMDG birds, Marc also supports the TFDi 717, Maddog MD-80, and Aerosoft CRJ I believe.  But alas, not the QW 787.

Regards

[GCBraun 2,392]

I have both and after using the 748 the 787 feels more like an advanced toy. Kind of like the same feeling you have if you own the FSLabs and then go use the Aerosoft A320/19.

Edited September 28, 2018 by GCBraun

[Jude Bradley 659]

18 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I have both and after using the 748 the 787 feels more like an advanced toy. Kind of like the same feeling you have if own the FSLabs and then go use the Aerosoft A320/19.

True, I also have both, and I've flown nothing else since the 747-8 was released. It's more of a four-engine 777 than anything else. 

 

[regis9 4,014]

I would choose 787 simply because they are both good and the 787 gives you far more real world flight options - if that’s your thing (I only fly real world routes/aircraft other than subbing in historical aircraft sometimes).