PMDG Expansion 747-8 or QW 787

[duckbilled 310]

11 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

FedEx contracts out it's 74 flying 😉

Right, but I'm thinking of it from a origin/destination standpoint based on my personal preferences. My main goal is to utilize MEM and SDF more. I can't find any recent picks of 747's at MEM. At SDF, yes, but since I don't typically do cargo flights, and most of my flights are less than 5 hours, a 757 is better for me from a cargo standpoint. If the 747 package was a lot cheaper, I'd buy it, but for that price, I'm going to want to get a tone of use out of it.

[Raging Bull 23]

2 minutes ago, pracines said:

I don't have the iFly 737 but I do have the PMDG NGX - does the iFly have an HGS?

I do not see it mentioned in the product feature page of the iFly site as of this day:

http://www.iflysimsoft.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?PID=17

Nor is an HGS part of SP1:

http://www.iflysimsoft.com/NewsDetail.aspx?PID=7

The pressurisation and start process is more realistic on the NGX. Approach idle is correctly modelled. 

The general handling, pitch/power/VS/trim settings is far closer to the real airplane (according to the AFM I have).

 

 

[Bob Scott 7,721]

OK, let's keep to the topic.  748 vs 787, not iFly vs PMDG etc etc

 

[regis9 4,014]

 

4 hours ago, w6kd said:

I think with cargo 747 routes in the mix, there are at least as many r/w route options as the 787--particularly shorter legs.

 

Maybe if you include both 744 and 748, but even then I think you'd be hard pressed to find as many currently active city pairings as you would for the combined 788 and 789. 

As a proxy example, currently Flightaware is tracking 186 789s and 146 788s for a total of 332 787's.

Flightaware is tracking 93 744s and 32 748s for a total of 125 747's.  If we're talking 748 only (as I think the OP was) the difference is even larger than the combined 747 numbers.

2 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

I own all of them and i tend to make it the day to call what i am up to . Some times i am so tied from work and need the " just feel and look" without to much fuzz all though i really enjoy realism in a very pro way but sometimes its just what it is :-).

Me too.  The obvious answer to the OP's question is "both", that's what I did.  I have pretty much every payware airliner out there and I tend to circulate through them over time just depending on what mood I'm in.  I fly some more than others, but generally they all get into the rotation at some point.

[Snuffleupagus 327]

I have the 744 and the 787, and honestly the 787 is just as fun (in its own unique way) as the 744. So I think it comes down to whichever one you have a personal taste for. 

[BrianW 124]

3 hours ago, thibodba57 said:

PMDG actually skipped on modelling certain VNAV features that make the 748 more unique from the 744(Flap speed and
descent deceleration profile point).

QW didn’t include this in their 787 either when I last tried it (prior to latest SP).  The 787 isn’t a bad plane, but if you’re a detailed systems guy there’s a bunch of stuff that’s either missing or incorrect. What’s strange is they did model some obscure features like flap load relief, but missed some major details like proper hyd EMP operation.  The PMDG 748 is closer in that respect, and there’s a greater chance things could get added in the 748.

Something else to keep in mind is that the 748 falls under ICAO Airport code F since the wingspan is over 65M.  This may limit the ability to visit certain airports and often means taxi route and parking restrictions if you plan to follow those rules in the sim.
 

[thibodba57 462]

1 minute ago, BrianW said:

QW didn’t include this in their 787 either when I last tried it (prior to latest SP).  The 787 isn’t a bad plane, but if you’re a detailed systems guy there’s a bunch of stuff that’s either missing or incorrect. What’s strange is they did model some obscure features like flap load relief, but missed some major details like proper hyd EMP operation.  The PMDG 748 is closer in that respect, and there’s a greater chance things could get added in the 748.

Something else to keep in mind is that the 748 falls under ICAO Airport code F since the wingspan is over 65M.  This may limit the ability to visit certain airports and often means taxi route and parking restrictions if you plan to follow those rules in the sim.
 

The question wasn't which product is better.  But which to get.  I propositioned to get both.  If you can't afford both but have the 744 I'd go with the 787 just to broaden your fleet.  While the 748 is different in a lot of respects its more so different from the programmers stand point.  Operating the 744 and 748 is actually quite the same.  Thats why they share a type rating.  So by having both the 744 and the 787 you have more types of flying available to you.  We operate the 748 into the same locations we take a 744(mostly), so the differences in flying is minimal.  I'd never discourage anyone from getting the PMDG 748, but I think you'd find more fulfillment if you had more variety. Just a different take on the whole PMDG is better I gotta have it is all.  Yes its a better product (Yes they did miss some things, I've been flying approaches over the last hour and I've see a few things.  No I probably won't mention it to them, I was brushed off last time I did and the errors are still there in the 400.  Yes I have proper documentation and experience to backup the errors I've seen).  Its boils down to "Diversity is the spice of life".  Have them all, if you can't I'd just swing with the diversity thing.  My $.02

[pracines 823]

2 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

The question wasn't which product is better.  But which to get. 

🤯

What's the difference? Does not everybody want better? or are we trying to go for a worse product /experience? It makes no sense to broaden ones hanger with products that have a claim but do not live up to the claim. I will not say the QW 787 is terrible, but I will say I have seen reviews that do say the LNAV/VNAV functions (about as important as it gets!) are terrible.

Based on that and the fact that their latest update says "improvements" (not "fixed") to lateral and vertical depiction/tracking is why I cannot recommend, buy, or support, the QW 787.

When I see a good amount of reputable reviews saying LNAV/VNAV is functioning as documented/expected then I will take a closer look at buying it.

[thibodba57 462]

1 minute ago, pracines said:

🤯

What's the difference? Does not everybody want better? or are we trying to go for a worse product /experience? It makes no sense to broaden ones hanger with products that have a claim but do not live up to the claim. I will not say the QW 787 is terrible, but I will say I have seen reviews that do say the LNAV/VNAV functions (about as important as it gets!) are terrible.

Based on that and the fact that their latest update says "improvements" (not "fixed") to lateral and vertical depiction/tracking is why I cannot recommend, buy, or support, the QW 787.

When I see a good amount of reputable reviews saying LNAV/VNAV is functioning as documented/expected then I will take a closer look at buying it.

Any developer out there needs improvements on their LNAV/VNAV algorithms. I just shot 2 RNAV approaches in the 748, both accounts overshot/undershot LNAV and need a correction back on course.  VNAV was off on the 748.  I rode the Speed Brakes down because I could see I was off PTH.  Power remained at IDLE and the aircraft just acted like I was on IDLE PTH the whole way.  It doesn't function like that.  Although the real 748 has VNAV quirks that will make you scratch your head and wonder what the crud its doing, I doubt they could accurately mimic every error the aircraft has.  But I'll go back and say it.  The type of flying you do with the 748 is EXACTLY the type of flying you do with the 744.  SOOOO if you can, get both.  Yes the PMDG 748 is a better quality product than the QW.  Don't act like I didn't say that.  BUT, if you are strapped for cash and you want more diversity in your flying, THEN get the QW 787.  Come back later and get the 748.

[BrianW 124]

20 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

but I think you'd find more fulfillment if you had more variety. Just a different take on the whole PMDG is better I gotta have it is all.

I totally agree, in fact I’ve been spending most of my sim time in the FSL A319, and A3XX are four letter words in my neck of the woods :).  Some recent Maddog time with the awesome SP1 too.

 

22 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

No I probably won't mention it to them, I was brushed off last time I did and the errors are still there in the 400.  Yes I have proper documentation and experience to backup the errors I've seen).

Please continue to report to them what you find to help make it better.  I’m not sure why they’d brush you off considering you have time in type, as long as the issue could be verified.

[thibodba57 462]

1 minute ago, BrianW said:

Please continue to report to them what you find to help make it better.  I’m not sure why they’d brush you off considering you have time in type, as long as the issue could be verified.

Honestly I probably would.  But I spent a decent amount of time doing personal research into the system flaws and described overall the proper interpretation of the FCOM and how the aircraft reacts and I got a.  "Oh well that was that was previously reported and its coming out in the next patch" just to find out a year later now its still not fixed.  It was just a reply to pacify me. So if its doesn't break the aircraft I'm juts gonna keep my mouth shut and call it a simism at this point.

[pracines 823]

2 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

Yes the PMDG 748 is a better quality product than the QW.  Don't act like I didn't say that.  BUT, if you are strapped for cash and you want more diversity in your flying, THEN get the QW 787.  Come back later and get the 748.

I'm not acting I assure you✌️

there was no mention of there being a cash shortage, but more an effort to support a more "worthy" company. Value.

I personally have no problems with any PMDG A/P functions and I fly them all (73 74 77) a lot, all over the P3D world, to all kinds of airports, and many different kinds of SIDS/STARS and approaches.

I did have problems with QW 757 A/P functions mainly because they did not function like the real AP. The LDS 767 did a good job with A/P functions so its not like its impossible to model well even many years ago.

I think the OP wants to buy the 787, so do I, but not if we're going to have headaches. Diversity that includes blatant obvious bugs should not be supported until it is done right - that's what I thought a beta test was for....no excuses when a plane hits the $50-70 price range.

 

[B777ER 2,486]

1 hour ago, thibodba57 said:

Honestly I probably would.  But I spent a decent amount of time doing personal research into the system flaws and described overall the proper interpretation of the FCOM and how the aircraft reacts and I got a.  "Oh well that was that was previously reported and its coming out in the next patch" just to find out a year later now its still not fixed.  It was just a reply to pacify me. So if its doesn't break the aircraft I'm juts gonna keep my mouth shut and call it a simism at this point.

It's a pity if they brush a real world type rated pilot off. 

[thibodba57 462]

5 minutes ago, B777ER said:

It's a pity if they brush a real world type rated pilot off. 

They have their own type rated guys there.  A couple at least from my carrier even.  But without asking for credentials and what not they can't verify my experience. So it is what it is.  Like I said, I'll play along and just chalk it up as a simism.  You fly enough Level-D sims you seem them enough just to roll with it 🙂

[Wise87 1,281]

8 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

They have their own type rated guys there.  A couple at least from my carrier even.  But without asking for credentials and what not they can't verify my experience. So it is what it is.  Like I said, I'll play along and just chalk it up as a simism.  You fly enough Level-D sims you seem them enough just to roll with it 🙂

I thought you could look up anyone on the FAA Registry and see their credentials and type rating. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Wise87