>A 2D panel without a VFR (landing view/pilots point of view)>is no panel at all to me. The main downside of a 2D main view>only is that one cannot get a perspective that gives one that>immersive feeling. >>To get the correct eye point for the VFR I use the FORWARD_UP>view ...oh whats the point!...OK I'll join the club..I'll>learn to make VC's ...but rest assured I will be charging!>:-lolEd, I already explained an alternate (and frankly superior) method to accomplish this in the Aircraft and Panel forum......a method that will work in both FS9 and FSX equally well. Progress happens, people either learn to adapt and/or adopt new methods, or they get left behind, lying on the wayside wondering "What went wrong?" :-wave

Ralph's question doesn't seem to have been answered fully.Can someone please answer the following question which I think is on the same subject.I've used GMAX to build FS9 aircraft with exterior and interior models but nothing else - no separate sideview bmps. I include a 2D panel only. Will I still be able to see the wings when I use the hat switch to look sideways?

>>A 2D panel without a VFR (landing view/pilots point of>view)>>is no panel at all to me. The main downside of a 2D main>view>>only is that one cannot get a perspective that gives one>that>>immersive feeling. >>>>To get the correct eye point for the VFR I use the>FORWARD_UP>>view ...oh whats the point!...OK I'll join the club..I'll>>learn to make VC's ...but rest assured I will be charging!>>:-lol>>Ed, I already explained an alternate (and frankly superior)>method to accomplish this in the Aircraft and Panel forum...>>...a method that will work in both FS9 and FSX equally well. >>Progress happens, people either learn to adapt and/or adopt>new methods, or they get left behind, lying on the wayside>wondering "What went wrong?" >>:-wave As I aready answered in the panel forum Window00 and window01is not satisfactory. :)

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

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>Ralph's question doesn't seem to have been answered fully.>>Can someone please answer the following question which I think>is on the same subject.>>I've used GMAX to build FS9 aircraft with exterior and>interior models but nothing else - no separate sideview bmps. >I include a 2D panel only. Will I still be able to see the>wings when I use the hat switch to look sideways?Your answer is actually not really on the same subject.you will be able to see your wings (although I presume you are looking not just sideways but slightly backwards)using the FSX camera viewsFSX has Walk and Follow style views as standard so you will be able to see your wings ...but 2D side views or any other 2D view that is not a forward view you wll not.This may still be confusing but you need to know a little about panel design to understand.

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

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That one seems too expensive, as it has no windows at all ;) With respect to your preference of 2d sideviews Ed, let me throw my 2 cents too you too help you get that shell ;) 2d side views that are photoreal add too immersion, i fully agree. But they distract from situational awareness. What do i mean with that? Take a look at the picture you posted. The 3D view has a correct perspective, while the 2d view has not. In the 2D, the headrest of the chair isn't perspectively correct aligned, like on the 3d the lines don't point to the horizon. In the 3d, no matter where the viewpoint is, the perspective is correct and you're judgement of where the wingtip is or rather if you're in level flight, will be much better. That's why i prefer VC views most of the time. With FSX and all thats gonna be designed for it, i hope all the time :)Regards, Gerrit

>That one seems too expensive, as it has no windows at all ;)>>With respect to your preference of 2d sideviews Ed, let me>throw my 2 cents too you too help you get that shell ;) 2d>side views that are photoreal add too immersion, i fully>agree. But they distract from situational awareness. What do i>mean with that? Take a look at the picture you posted. The 3D>view has a correct perspective, while the 2d view has not. In>the 2D, the headrest of the chair isn't perspectively correct>aligned, like on the 3d the lines don't point to the horizon.>In the 3d, no matter where the viewpoint is, the perspective>is correct and you're judgement of where the wingtip is or>rather if you're in level flight, will be much better. That's>why i prefer VC views most of the time. With FSX and all thats>gonna be designed for it, i hope all the time :)Allow me to respond for Ed."I'm happy you're happy with your VC." :(

Hi Jimmy,Thanks for those great pictures. I can see that panel designers would be very concerned about the changes coming up in FSX. That does help clarify things. Thanks again,Ralph

Hi Ed,Thanks for your help in explaining the problem to a new user.My main concern was of not being able to even view scenery out the side window in the 2D cockpit mode. That is something that I enjoy. I was alarmed and thought I would have to always use a 3D cockpit to view scenery out the side of the plane.Now, that is not to say I am not concerned about the panel designers that have put so much work and creativity into their designs and not be able to use them in FSX. That is a bummer.Thanks for all of your help,Ralph

Actually, I think it might be Ed. If you sit in your car, the horizon is where the horizon is. Now adjust the seat height up as far as it goes; isn't the horizon still where it was? To me at least, that's the same as sitting still and lowering the top of the dashboard. And yes, I sat there this afternoon convincing myself of this.It's a state of mind thing I think. I was convinced that using different forward views simulated looking up or down a bit i.e. the horizon moves, but now I'm not so sure that's the right way to look at it.If I'm correct, the forward view thing gets exciting because I now have a DC-8 with Capt IFR, Capt VFR, Capt landing, FO IFR, FO VFR, FO landing, MSFS style sitting on the pedestal view....and I can still dream up 3 more. All the extra forward views are added to the end of the "window" section of the cfg file so users could still access the first 9 pop-up windows using shft+num and the forward views are accessed using the "A" or "shft+A" keystroke.Now how to get a VC using 6 to 8 1024x768 textures that still load quickly is another matter :-)EDIT: I can'd find address Ed, drop me a line.Dreamfleet Project ManagerGreatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

>Actually, I think it might be Ed. If you sit in your car,>the horizon is where the horizon is. Now adjust the seat>height up as far as it goes; isn't the horizon still where it>was? To me at least, that's the same as sitting still and>lowering the top of the dashboard. And yes, I sat there this>afternoon convincing myself of this.>>It's a state of mind thing I think. I was convinced that>using different forward views simulated looking up or down a>bit i.e. the horizon moves, but now I'm not so sure that's the>right way to look at it.Hello Paul I couldnt give a #### about the horizon! :-lolTell me something using the window00, window01 method can one alter these points separately for each window?VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=VIEW_FORWARD_EYE=VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=Answer= NoOn all my IFR/VFR views it has been necessary to tweak these ..here is my L-10 exampleVFRVIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=10,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,15500,222,221VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=0.800VIEW_FORWARD_EYE=0.000, 0.000, 0.000VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=8.500, 0.000, 0.000IFRVIEW_FORWARD_UP_WINDOWS=37,223VIEW_FORWARD_UP_ZOOM=0.800VIEW_FORWARD_UP_EYE=-1.000[/font color], 0.000, 0.000VIEW_FORWARD_UP_DIR=11.500[/font color], 0.000, 356.000[/font color] One of the best examples is my PSSA320 addon where in the original main panel view one was looking into the sky whereas with my panel config one could see a bit of the rwy at the top of the screen ....a huge improvement!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/ede...320update-2.jpg>If I'm correct, the forward view thing gets exciting because I>now have a DC-8 with Capt IFR, Capt VFR, Capt landing, FO IFR,>FO VFR, FO landing, MSFS style sitting on the pedestal>view....and I can still dream up 3 more. All the extra>forward views are added to the end of the "window" section of>the cfg file so users could still access the first 9 pop-up>windows using shft+num and the forward views are accessed>using the "A" or "shft+A" keystroke.I have no doubt this the way forward. I am not trying to halt progess and have always embraced every new version of MSFS (well apart from FS2000)I am actually more exited about a Dreamfleet DC-8 than FSX! :9 (I do hope it will work in FS9 ;) )>>Now how to get a VC using 6 to 8 1024x768 textures that still>load quickly is another matter :-)>>EDIT: I can'd find address Ed, drop me a line.As a one fingered typist I would rather meet up and have a chat over a beer :) You have mail :-beerchug>>Dreamfleet Project Manager>Greatest Airliners - DC-8>Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjet>>

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color][link:www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=edetroit]My FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color[/url]

"One of the best examples is my PSSA320 addon where in the original main panel view one was looking into the sky whereas with my panel config one could see a bit of the rwy at the top of the screen ....a huge improvement!"Being able to control the outside view window for each forward view panel might deal with this ;-)

Thank you for your condescending reply which doesn't answer my question. "...I presume you are looking not just sideways but slightly backwards..." You presume wrong. I meant what I said. Not all aircraft have sweptback wings.I do know more than a little about panel design.

>>Being able to control the outside view window for each forward>view panel might deal with this ;-)Now that sounds interesting! :)

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

>Thank you for your condescending reply which doesn't answer>my question. >>"...I presume you are looking not just sideways but slightly>backwards..." You presume wrong. I meant what I said. Not all>aircraft have sweptback wings.>>I do know more than a little about panel design.Sorry m8...I tried to answer your question. :)I have yet to see an airliner where the one looks 90 deg left or right out of the cockpit and one sees the wings :-hmmm

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

LOL!!!Maybe mgh is talking about GA? :-)Dreamfleet Project ManagerGreatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg