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Ray Proudfoot

Stutters / Pause every 13 seconds over London

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I flew from Amsterdam into Heathrow yesterday using UT LIve for the first time. As I locked on to the ILS for 27R around 15 miles out I noticed the sim stuttering quite badly. I put it down to too high UT Live settings. Today I setup a test 'slew' from London City westward to Heathrow at a fixed height of 500ft and 160kts to emaulate a normal aircraft's speed.

With UT LIve disabled I was still getting this stutter / pause and discovered they occurred every 12-13 seconds and last around 1 second. Regular as clockwork. I reduced Scenery complexity from Very Dense down to Sparce but the problem persisted.

I installed the latest Nvidia drivers, rebooted but the problem remained. With it happening every 12 seconds I suspected something in the background but trying to establish what would be a nightmare.

I swtched to Milan Malpensa and did the same test. Same speed and height. No stutters. Went to LAX, Same there, no problem.

My starting point is Rwy 28 at EGLC which is just east of the prime meridian. I still see brief stuttering as the prime meridian is crossed but that is very different to this. And why only around London? It's not related to CPU or GPU loading. I need to do more testing. I'll relocate to an airport east of London and slew westward and check there. Maybe it only starts within a certain distance. The stutter / pause continued all the way to Heathrow and beyond. I'm familiar with this test as I did it in P3D v3 and no stuttering there with a lesser PC.

I've seen other stuttering topics but nothing like mine. Consistently every 12-13 secs. Maybe speed related. If I half or double the speed will it half or double the stutter period? if it does then it's P3D related. If it doesn't then it's system related. It will keep me busy for a while. A flight today from Marseilles to Barcelona was totally smooth even with UT LIve enabled.

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Ray, this is an age old problem for ESP sims. It is very common for people to suffer outrageous stuttering / long pauses anywhere around London. 
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/545061-p3d-v4-new-rig-new-hopes/?do=findComment&comment=3925390

What I have noticed is that it seems to affect simmers with HDD most, but SSD users suffer also.
Unlike most, I have a Ryzen 8 core CPU and have put all of my P3D installation on its own SSD. While I get some small stutters, it's nowhere near as bad as what has been described on other threads.

Take a look at where the discussion in this thread went as to what may be the root cause:
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/546004-orbx-causing-long-pauses-in-v44/

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What Heathrow scenery?

I'm sure you are aware that London is a special case in the FSX/P3D world.  Three large airports surround it, and a couple of decent-sized ones as well (London City and Luton), with lots of AI in the bubble.  Furthermore, it has many, many autogen objects, and many custom 3D objects, even with the default scenery.  Since it is a special performance location , I have a somewhat draconian settings profile called 'London' that I use for it.   AG sliders are a notch or two lower.  Special Effects off.  Things like that.

I'm not getting the pause every 13 seconds though.  I run Orbx Vector and LC Europe too.  My Heathrow is Aerosoft's.

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10 hours ago, F737NG said:

Ray, this is an age old problem for ESP sims. It is very common for people to suffer outrageous stuttering / long pauses anywhere around London. 
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/545061-p3d-v4-new-rig-new-hopes/?do=findComment&comment=3925390

What I have noticed is that it seems to affect simmers with HDD most, but SSD users suffer also.
Unlike most, I have a Ryzen 8 core CPU and have put all of my P3D installation on its own SSD. While I get some small stutters, it's nowhere near as bad as what has been described on other threads.

Take a look at where the discussion in this thread went as to what may be the root cause:
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/546004-orbx-causing-long-pauses-in-v44/

I've had versions of flight sim since 1993 so I'm well versed in specific problems around London especially the stutters as the prime meridian is crossed. But that was a short-lived thing. These stutters / pause continue westward until I have passed Heathrow - 15 miles away.

I've looked at the first link and I have no SoCal / NoCal scenery. Neither do I experience the enormous pause as the aircraft touches down as shown in the second link.

I have a 2 month old PC with fast SSDs so that is not a factor. Reducing Scenery Complexity to Sparse made no difference so it's not related to drawing objects. In any case why would only London be affected and not other major cities?

You have to ask what is unique about London. It's the only major city that straddles the prime meridian. The same BGL files exist in P3D as existed back in FS9 and before. That is linked to this problem, I'm sure of it.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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9 hours ago, Mace said:

What Heathrow scenery?

I'm sure you are aware that London is a special case in the FSX/P3D world.  Three large airports surround it, and a couple of decent-sized ones as well (London City and Luton), with lots of AI in the bubble.  Furthermore, it has many, many autogen objects, and many custom 3D objects, even with the default scenery.  Since it is a special performance location , I have a somewhat draconian settings profile called 'London' that I use for it.   AG sliders are a notch or two lower.  Special Effects off.  Things like that.

I'm not getting the pause every 13 seconds though.  I run Orbx Vector and LC Europe too.  My Heathrow is Aerosoft's.

Aerosoft Heathrow Xtreme. Same as I had in FSX and P3D v3. I'm aware of Gatwick but what is the third large airport you mention? Stansted? That isn't large.

I did mention I disabled UT LIve so Ai isn't a factor. If the stutters / pause ended when I slewed clear of central London I wouldn't be posting here as it would be obvious what the problem was. These stutters / pause continue long after complex scenery has been passed.

I have UTX Europe and FTX Global. I shall disable the former and see what effect it has. There might be a setting causing the problem. FTX Global is not suspected.

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Sorry to hear your problem, Ray.

I flew into Aerosofts EGLL from EDDK in the -8F and the approach was right over the city. It was smooth as silk. I use OLC EU and vector with most things turned off. Just make sure Vector has only very few options active.

Turn all options off and see what happens.

Just a note on UT Live I have 25 as my max traffic and distance turned down low, that helps around London. 

Your PC is far better than mine so you need to find the culprit because it's there some were. 

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Thanks David. I shall tackle this in a logical way to find the culprit. I really need to get it as close to default P3D as possible and then add things back one at a time. The fact you had no issues over Central London confirms to me that it doesn't appear to be a P3D problem. I certainly don't remember it in P3D v3 even when flying Concorde into Heathrow.

Thinking about it more I suspect a setting in Ultimate Terrain X Europe as I had a similar performnce issue at Mexico City airport and it was a road setting in UTX TAC that was responsible. I don't have Vector. I read some reports it had a negative effect on performance so never considered it. I think UTX is the same type of product.

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Sometimes dublicate AFCADS can cause these sorts of problems on my system on specific locations.

Try search if there is something going on there . Also try disable SODE and couatl.exe if you can and test again.

 

Thanks

Michael Moe  

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@Michael Moe, thanks Michael. I’ll check for duplicate AFCADs but I can’t see either SODE or couatl being responsible. The problem appears limited to London.

Chief suspect remains a setting in UTX. It’s easy to disable all UTX entries in Scenery Library. If it solves it then delving into individual settings should find the problem.

I’m out for the rest of today with former work colleagues. I shall pick up any posts tomorrow.

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3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Michael Moe, thanks Michael. I’ll check for duplicate AFCADs but I can’t see either SODE or couatl being responsible. The problem appears limited to London.

Chief suspect remains a setting in UTX. It’s easy to disable all UTX entries in Scenery Library. If it solves it then delving into individual settings should find the problem.

I’m out for the rest of today with former work colleagues. I shall pick up any posts tomorrow.

I had a pausing issue a while back over London. Turned out to be  a SODE issue.

 

When i disabled it for my Gatwick UK2000 scenery it stopped the problem.

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Ray,

I use UTX Europe and can fly into Heathrow without stutters.I use the UK2000 version.Make sure that all the UTX entries are below your Heathrow entry too.

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7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Aerosoft Heathrow Xtreme. Same as I had in FSX and P3D v3. I'm aware of Gatwick but what is the third large airport you mention? Stansted? That isn't large.

Heh.  Well, Stansted is large to me I guess.  I think you are on the right path by getting as close to a vanilla P3D install as possible and then adding various UTX Europe features back in one at a time.

 

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3 hours ago, Matthew James de Bohun said:

I had a pausing issue a while back over London. Turned out to be  a SODE issue.

When i disabled it for my Gatwick UK2000 scenery it stopped the problem.

That's the frustrating things with FS. What works for one is no guarantee it will work for others but I will bear it in mind.

 

3 hours ago, norman s said:

Ray,

I use UTX Europe and can fly into Heathrow without stutters.I use the UK2000 version.Make sure that all the UTX entries are below your Heathrow entry too.

The entries are in the correct order. Maybe you have tweaked your UTX settings. But no two sims are exactly the same so it's just detective work. It's the 12 second repetition that is baffling.

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Any chance you have a desktop 'slide show' enabled? I was baffled with essentially the same problem. Turned out it was my desktop background. Even though I had the sim running full screen, the desktop change in the background caused a stutter at precisely 10 second intervals.

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@odourboy, what a great thought. Yes, I certainly have a theme selected but will need to check the frequency the images change. But not every 10 seconds I think. It might explain why I never had this issue with my previous computer as it ran W7 and I’m sure I never had that option selected.

I shall report back tomorrow morning.

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strange  that it  only happens  at one  airport  and not  others  if  it  were  the  desktop   slide  show  was  at issue

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3 hours ago, pete_auau said:

strange  that it  only happens  at one  airport  and not  others  if  it  were  the  desktop   slide  show  was  at issue

I agree but it's worth checking. It's definitely something that has happened since I got the new PC and I have switched that slide show option on and off a few times. I'll know within a couple of hours.

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An encouraging update. Firstly I turned off the slideshow option but sadly it made no difference. Still worth trying though.

Next I thought about what might be different about London compared to other major cities that didn't exhibit this problem. UTX possibly. So I disabled all entries in scenery.cfg relating to UTX Europe but I left the global entries alone.

Success! No more stutters / pause every 12 seconds. Just the always present stutters as the prime meridian is crossed.

So now I have to enable each of the 7 entries in turn and establish which is causing the problem. I'm getting there. Appreciate all the advice given so far.

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Problem identified and resolved. There is an option in UTX Europe named RTX Moving Traffic for Freeways, HIghways, Motorways and Major Roads(3D). By default it is enabled.

This on its own is not a problem but if you go into Options - Traffic and set Road Vehicles to any value greater than zero it results in this pause every 12 seconds in and around London.

I set Road Vehicles to 1%. That was enough to create the problem. If you disable the RTX Moving Traffic option in UTX there's no point increasing Road Vehicles setting as no vehicles will be seen anyway.

There is a warning in UTX that that Moving Traffic option does have a very high impact on performance. Disastrously so I would suggest.

I have disabled that UTX option and set Road Vehicles to zero. End of problem.

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