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I've been out of FS for a year or so. Before that I flew mainly FSX. I tried P3D up to 4.1 but there were too many glitches. I am sure it was more my system than P3D itself. I deleted it and got my money back.

Now, I am picking up flying again but my first couple of flights with FSX in my old system ended with screen blurries - Orbx scenery lost all its detail. 

The PC is about 6 years old - Ivy-Bridge i7-3770K not clocked as the BIOS on my Gigaboard is almost impossible to get into, even using a PS2 keyboard. Let's not go into that issue, please!

Graphics is GTX 770 4GB, DDR 8GB, plenty of HDD storage, Windows 7 x64bit.

So, what to do? W7 is on its way out. I have a massive load of FSX addons, including ORBX global, and many airports.

The easy solution might be just to upgrade the graphics card. But would it just be throwing good money after bad?

Is it time to get a new PC, forget about FSX, and run either P3D with ORBX, or X-PLane without ORBX. (I don't think they made it available for X-Plane but if they have I guess it comes at a hefty price!).

Thanks for any advice.

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Hi, I was in your exact position not so long ago. Same graphic card, same CPU. I chose to upgrade the graphic card first. What resolution are you running?

Are you ready to upgrade to P3Dv4 or do you want to keep running FsX?

Edited by TopGun33
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Thanks!

I'm running 1920x1200. I tried P3D up tp 3.4. It wasn't wonderful on my system - lots of crashes, stutters, etc. It didn't run as well as FSX, or even FS9 which runs sweet as a nut on another older PC.

Probably I want to keep using FSX. I might try P3D again although from what I read, X-Plane might suit me better as a platform - I prefer GA to heavy metal.

Edited by betelgeuse

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5 hours ago, betelgeuse said:

The easy solution might be just to upgrade the graphics card. But would it just be throwing good money after bad?

Not so sure that upgrading your GPU will bring you much since FSX is more CPU than GPU intensive.  However, with a new video card you are probably a good candidate for X-Plane 11. 

I found it runs fairly well on my i5-3570K system even with the weaker video card.  

Ernie

 

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Hi. I too, have the same cpu but oc it to 4.3 ghz on air cooling with no issues but have just upgraded to GTX1070ti gpu and can run P3d 4.4 with orbx, pmdg, as, gsx, with smooth stable results. The only gain I can see to upgrading cpu (which entails new mobo and memory)would be the addition of 2 or more cores. Not ready to spend that much $ yet for little gain (imho).

 

Brian

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5 hours ago, nordance said:

Hi. I too, have the same cpu but oc it to 4.3 ghz on air cooling with no issues but have just upgraded to GTX1070ti gpu and can run P3d 4.4 with orbx, pmdg, as, gsx, with smooth stable results. The only gain I can see to upgrading cpu (which entails new mobo and memory)would be the addition of 2 or more cores. Not ready to spend that much $ yet for little gain (imho).

 

Brian

Guys, great advice.  My problem with o/c is the Gigabyte Z77X - UD3H mobo UEFI BIOS. To access this a PS2 keyboard is needed and all devices removed from USB ports. It was an early effort at UEFI as far as I can see, and Gigabyte did a poor job with it - there've been lots of problems. Apart from that single issue, the board is fine. All I've done with it is to replace the 3v battery. 

Anyways, I cannot get into the UEFI reliably - sometimes the front page comes up but it doesn't respond to key commands or mouse.

If I could find a way to o/c the 3770K gently and replace the old graphics card with a GTX1070ti, that would keep me happy for a while with FSX. Maybe I would add a second sim later. I've an empty 1GB partition just waiting!

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I have a 3770k @4.5 ghz and a 1080ti with 8 gb of RAM. It runs FSX, P3Dv3 and P3Dv4 well on a 4k monitor. When I originally built my system I put in a 780 GTX. It ran fine except in heavy clouds where the 780GTX maxed out a 100% usage and then the FPS dropped. Installing the 1080ti alleviated that problem and allowed me to turn up some of my graphics settings a little. I say a little because even though my 1080ti never sees over 50% usage the old CPU/memory/motherboard is now the bottleneck and I cannot use higher than medium settings for the most part in P3D. The sims still run great but with no reflections, dynamic anything, and only aircraft shadows. If your budget is tight I would say try to get the CPU overclocked and get the 1070ti. If you cannot do that or your budget is not tight I would plan on a new system.

I am in the process of building a new 8086 system but will keep the 1080ti.

Ted

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I ran a 3770k with a 770 and fsx as well.. worked just fine.

Now p3dv4.4 3770k@4.3 and a 1070.. runs even better!

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Have you tried to use intel's overclocking utility? Downloads from Intel's website. Does it externally.

Brian

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1 hour ago, nordance said:

Have you tried to use intel's overclocking utility? Downloads from Intel's website. Does it externally.

Brian

No, I haven't. Will take a look at it tomorrow. Getting late here now.

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15 hours ago, betelgeuse said:

Guys, great advice.  My problem with o/c is the Gigabyte Z77X - UD3H mobo UEFI BIOS. To access this a PS2 keyboard is needed and all devices removed from USB ports. It was an early effort at UEFI as far as I can see, and Gigabyte did a poor job with it - there've been lots of problems. Apart from that single issue, the board is fine. All I've done with it is to replace the 3v battery. 

Anyways, I cannot get into the UEFI reliably - sometimes the front page comes up but it doesn't respond to key commands or mouse.

If I could find a way to o/c the 3770K gently and replace the old graphics card with a GTX1070ti, that would keep me happy for a while with FSX. Maybe I would add a second sim later. I've an empty 1GB partition just waiting!

 

 

Others have had this issue. Their suggestions may help you get into the BIOS. If and when you do, update the BIOS. You may then find you can access the BIOS consistently and can overclock.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/321152-30-solved-gigabyte-z77x-ud3h-past-splash-screen-bios

Removing the graphics card and relying on the CPU's on-board graphics worked for some. If that works, as I said, update the BIOS.

For the USB issue, one guy suggested "switch over the PCIE Rom state to Legacy ROM". 

If still no luck, email Gigabyte, I'm sure their tech guys will offer a suggestion, even if it's beyond the warranty. 

Edited by martin-w
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8 hours ago, martin-w said:

Others have had this issue. Their suggestions may help you get into the BIOS. If and when you do, update the BIOS. You may then find you can access the BIOS consistently and can overclock.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/321152-30-solved-gigabyte-z77x-ud3h-past-splash-screen-bios

Removing the graphics card and relying on the CPU's on-board graphics worked for some. If that works, as I said, update the BIOS.

For the USB issue, one guy suggested "switch over the PCIE Rom state to Legacy ROM". 

If still no luck, email Gigabyte, I'm sure their tech guys will offer a suggestion, even if it's beyond the warranty. 

Thanks for trying to help. As I pointed out in my OP, I did not want to go to the BIOS issue! I realise that the thread has migrated that way with the very best of intentions, but...

I tried again. I removed theGTX770 and ran a screen off the onboard graphics. I removed all unnecessary USBs - I had to keep a mouse. I attached a PS2 keyboard.  I got the same result.  Sometimes I got into UEFI but I couldn't select anything with keystrokes. Once, I got into a Marvel BIOS page which offered only info on the system drives! I don't know what that was about!

I first contacted Gigabyte about this same issue in 2014. They were unable to provide a solution other than to RMA the unit. I suppose I could have, but I didn't want to dismantle the build as it ran pretty well most of the time. The arrival of ORBX and other demanding addons (weather, aircraft, flight planners, P3D) became too much for the poor old default 3.5 GHz clock.  Hence my my non-flying for the past year, and my current efforts to breathe new life into an old system. 

Intel advised me not to use their o/c tool with a 'legacy' CPU.

So, I must decide if it would be worth removing the 3770K and installing it on another  mobo. I've not tried that before with a CPU which has been in place for so long (at least 6 years). I have a water-cooling system which might ( I just don't know) complicate the procedure even more.

If anyone has advice on this, I'd be grateful -  I know I've veered off topic a bit. 

 

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I don't use water cooling, but I do have a ASRock Z77 Extreme4, which I've been very happy with.  It's OC'ed to 4.2Ghz and has been rock solid.

Unfortunately, they are now selling on eBay used for what I paid new. Still, if you're patient you might find a used one for under $100.

Hopefully the group here will give you some other great suggestions.

 

 

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14 hours ago, betelgeuse said:

 

So, I must decide if it would be worth removing the 3770K and installing it on another  mobo. I've not tried that before with a CPU which has been in place for so long (at least 6 years). I have a water-cooling system which might ( I just don't know) complicate the procedure even more.

If anyone has advice on this, I'd be grateful -  I know I've veered off topic a bit. 

 

 

 

What kind of water cooling solution. If an AIO, it's straight forward. If a custom loop with soft tubing can also be straightforward. If a custom loop with rigid tubing then the entire system would have to be drained.

A CPU that has been in place for 6 years is not an issue. Once the cooler has been removed it's simplicity itself. Lift the latch and remove CPU. Easy. Taking care not to bend the pins on the motherboard is common sense of course. 

I take it you didn't build the system you have now and are limited in experience in this respect? If so, there's plenty of tutorial videos on the internet and the motherboard manual itself will advise you on how to install or remove the CPU. 

 

Quote

Is it time to get a new PC, forget about FSX, and run either P3D with ORBX, or X-PLane without ORBX. (I don't think they made it available for X-Plane but if they have I guess it comes at a hefty price!).

 

Well the latest CPU  bought by serious gamers/enthusiasts, the 9900K, is  something like 39% faster in single core performance and 180% faster multi-core performance. So whether you should buy a new PC is something you must decide based on what you want from the sim and how much money you are prepared to spend. You must decide if you want the best performance you can squeeze from the sim or if you are happy with what a new motherboard and overcloking your current 3770K will provide. Consider that overclocking will not be any kind of miracle. Overclocking is generally linear in a reasonably well balanced system devoid of serious bottlenecks. A high overclock from stock 3.6 to 4.5 GHz is 25%. So if the sim is averaging 30 frames per second you are looking at 37 frames per second or so. And the silicon lottery of course may result in a lower overclock than that. A new graphics card with your system will also result in a performance boost of course, as will; faster RAM to a degree. 

A complicating factor I should mention, as this is an Ivy Bridge CPU, is that manufacturers were in the habit of turning MCE on by default with XMP. So it may be that your CPU is already running at max Turbo on all cores. In which case the 37 frames per second I mentioned in the overclock scenario above would be less than that.

 

 

Edited by martin-w
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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

What kind of water cooling solution. If an AIO, it's straight forward. If a custom loop with soft tubing can also be straightforward. If a custom loop with rigid tubing then the entire system would have to be drained.

A CPU that has been in place for 6 years is not an issue. Once the cooler has been removed it's simplicity itself. Lift the latch and remove CPU. Easy. Taking care not to bend the pins on the motherboard is common sense of course. 

I take it you didn't build the system you have now and are limited in experience in this respect? If so, there's plenty of tutorial videos on the internet and the motherboard manual itself will advise you on how to install or remove the CPU.

Well the latest CPU  bought by serious gamers/enthusiasts, the 9900K, is  something like 39% faster in single core performance and 180% faster multi-core performance. So whether you should buy a new PC is something you must decide based on what you want from the sim and how much money you are prepared to spend. You must decide if you want the best performance you can squeeze from the sim or if you are happy with what a new motherboard and overcloking your current 3770K will provide. Consider that overclocking will not be any kind of miracle. Overclocking is generally linear in a reasonably well balanced system devoid of serious bottlenecks. A high overclock from stock 3.6 to 4.5 GHz is 25%. So if the sim is averaging 30 frames per second you are looking at 37 frames per second or so. And the silicon lottery of course may result in a lower overclock than that. A new graphics card with your system will also result in a performance boost of course, as will; faster RAM to a degree. 

A complicating factor I should mention, as this is an Ivy Bridge CPU, is that manufacturers were in the habit of turning MCE on by default with XMP. So it may be that your CPU is already running at max Turbo on all cores. In which case the 37 frames per second I mentioned in the overclock scenario above would be less than that.

 

 

Water cooling is Corsair CWCH80 - soft tubing. I did not build this PC but I have built at least a dozen before and since. None of them used water cooling. I am nervous about spills when the cooler is removed. I know it is a sealed system - until it is unsealed...

According to msinfo32 the 3770K is running at the default speed of 3.5GHz.

I have a mind to find a compatible mobo and rebuild with a new graphics card. If this doesn't match up, I can use the graphics in a brand new build. 

Thanks, guys, for all the very useful advice. It's up to me now!

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Well, maybe you have to manage yourself a way thru the BIOS for a overclock and save yourself a lot of money. Why? I have a much older i7 Sandy Bridge 2600K running steady for several years now on 4,5 GHz with watercooling and originally collected in 2011 with 8Gb DDR3 1600 Mhz RAM and a Geforce 580GTX and was a flagship in that time. 3 months ago I changed the 580 for a second hand Geforce 1060 and a RAM upgrade to 16Gb and running P3DV4 with all settings very dense or extreme high full at 30fps. The good old FSX all to the max in 3d vision with a steady 30fps both wirh all the ORBX stuff. I'm waiting for the Samsung Oddysey+ to come available in Europe for a good price and already know that the system is doing fine with these hardware according to the Steam VR test app. 

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Water cooling is Corsair CWCH80 - soft tubing. I did not build this PC but I have built at least a dozen before and since. None of them used water cooling. I am nervous about spills when the cooler is removed. I know it is a sealed system - until it is unsealed...

 

H80 isn't top-notch. I would upgrade it if you intend to overclock. And if its 6 years old the pump will have had plenty of wear.

The cooler wont leak when removed unless it's defective.  They aren't as delicate as you think. Personally I'm an air cooler fan. Noctua in particular. 

 

 

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According to msinfo32 the 3770K is running at the default speed of 3.5GHz.

 

No, that's the non turbo speed. It wont be. Turbo will be boosting one of the cores to 3.9 GHz. The way to tell is to run a stress test and monitor the cores with HWMonitor. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 3:25 PM, martin-w said:

H80 isn't top-notch. I would upgrade it if you intend to overclock. And if its 6 years old the pump will have had plenty of wear.

The cooler wont leak when removed unless it's defective.  They aren't as delicate as you think. Personally I'm an air cooler fan. Noctua in particular.

Yes, I would upgrade this - 6 years of heavy use behind it.

 

On 1/15/2019 at 3:30 PM, martin-w said:

 

No, that's the non turbo speed. It wont be. Turbo will be boosting one of the cores to 3.9 GHz. The way to tell is to run a stress test and monitor the cores with HWMonitor. 

Hm..I'll investigate. I've heard a bit about torture-testing. I'm not sure my old 3770K was designed to stand up to modern testing. Might blow its head off!

I remember using OCCT a long time ago without problems on a machine. Prime95 seems to be used a lot. Any recommendation? 

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5 hours ago, betelgeuse said:

Yes, I would upgrade this - 6 years of heavy use behind it.

 

Hm..I'll investigate. I've heard a bit about torture-testing. I'm not sure my old 3770K was designed to stand up to modern testing. Might blow its head off!

I remember using OCCT a long time ago without problems on a machine. Prime95 seems to be used a lot. Any recommendation? 

 

3770K is perfectly capable of running OCCT, Prime 95 or any of the stress tests. All of the aforementioned existed well before the 3770K was released. The only thing to watch out for is AVX instruction sets. The latest version of Prime runs AVX, as does OCCT etc. AVX stresses the CPU to the extreme and more heat is generated. Not an issue with no overclock, but if you overclock and run AVX, especially with a less than top-notch cooler, you could generate very high temps. AVX can be disabled in Prime (or use the older version that didn't run AVX), Aida 64, and I believe in OCCT. 

I wasn't saying you should stress your CPU to the max to determine if it's running with MCE on or off, you just need to put it under load. A stress test will do that. I would say just run CineBench. And monitor the cores with HWMonitor. You will be able to see what frequency it's running at, the voltage and temps. Plus a myriad of other useful data. Or just run the sim, or any other application that puts it under load. 

For overclocking, I run Cinebench for a quick stability test after each nudge up in frequency and when I'm at the max my CPU seems to be capable of, I run Asus ROG RealBench for an hour or so. That's all I usually need. The best test of stability is the apps you usually run daily. 

Aida64 I sometimes run, with FPU off it doesn't run AVX, with FPU on it does run AVX so temps will be higher. 

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The CPU was tested with OCCT as I had used it before, it is free, and it has built-in temp etc monitoring.  It also has a warning cut out.

The program stopped testing at around 13min. and I've attached a pic which may or may not be of use in making a diagnosis!  The message on the OCCT panel was that there was a fault in Core #2.  The temps on all cores had crept up continuously and showed no signs of stablising.

I guess the CPU has a fault, and this would fit in with the general behaviour of the system over the past year - occasional screen dumps and poor performance generally. With FSX it just could not handle the ORBX scenery, even though I never had the sliders maxed out, or even near, and I ran weather off a networked laptop. 

It seems I need to consider building or buying a new system. The PS (800W Corsair Gold) is less than 3 years old.  I have a 500GB SDD and I will keep this. The HDDs are either old or very old!

Thanks to martin-w, and all for your help and interest. 

 

414116763.jpg

Edited by betelgeuse

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I also tested with Cinebench. All cores were rock solid at 3.9GHz, temps around 57C on all cores during rendering. CPU score 638 cb.

GTX770 did well too at 88.77 fps. CPU temps during this also around 57C on all cores.

Seems according to Cinebench there is no problem with my CPU or GPU at a clock of 3.9GHz.  Whereas OCCT stopped testing to prevent damage after 13 mins - error in core 2.

Which to believe? 

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Try RealBench. And Aida 64, trail version. And Prime 95 version 26.6, non AVX version. You can disable  AVX in the new version, but the old version will save you the trouble. 

RealBench is very good. 

May have been just a glitch in OCCT.

 

Edited by martin-w
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Hi,

my I7-3770 runs for over 6 Years with 4,8 Ghz with BeQuiet Cooler Dark Rock3, no Problems at all.

I will wait what V5 from LM will need and then I will buy a new one. In the meantime I be happy with my 3770 in all areas.

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Thanks again, guys. I ran the sim (FSX) again this afternoon - Orbx Southern Germany, decent amount of AI, no weather program, flying an old MAAM FSX DC3 with RXP navigation module.

There was an awful lot of stuttering right from 'brakes off'.

This is a pic of the HW monitor after about one hour - just before I turned finals to land. I was surprised that CPU#2 bore the brunt of the work, and surprised that it was 8-10C cooler than the other cores.

414120030.jpg

I will check again with RealBench and the others mentioned by martin-w. 

If the 3770K makes the 3.9 GHz grade, then I will have to change the mobo so I can o/c (see OP!). Socket 1155 boards new are impossible to find or outrageously expensive, and I am nervous of secondhand. I hate the idea of scrapping a perfectly good i7-3770K but it might come to that in the end. 😪

Edited by betelgeuse

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