Hi JohnI can see where you coming from and I don't think things are as bad as they seem. It IS true that some big game publishers are running on the console hype wave. It is also true that over the last couple of years game revenues have dropped. Some of the big publishers should ask themselves if consoles are really all what people want. I think part of the hype is created by the past immense growth - simply because there was a big demand by a certain group. However, watching latest trends I feel this demand has been met now, and publisher should react to recent sales figures (ie there is no room for further growth).If you go to an avarage shop you may not find many sims anymore, however the simming market is strong and alive. Checkout Rfactor or GT Legends - great titles and Papyrus isn't dead either - some ex-team members are working on something big (including laser-scanned!!! racetracks). It seems while PC games are disappearing in shops, they are strong and alive on the internet. It seems the indie movement is once again revolutionising the way games are made and every one will win in the end. Big publisher titles usually don't excite me these days - they're entertainment value is too low (same as hollywood blockbusters). Needleed to say the MSFS franchise is an exception of course - and I doubt it will ever deteriorate into a soulless mess. It's a title that isn't driven by some publisher that doesn't have clue, but a dedicated and enthusiastic team! So, I wouldn't loose any sleep over the future of MSFS...Cheers,Christian

I'd take an arcade shooter or two, but I can't afford a ticket to Sacramento. But if you're living in Ellensburg does that count as a Western shooter??? Man I need to get back to the west side, sounds like a party in Redmond.

"Amen to that buddy, and I'm one of the worst critics of the mission thing,"You're a critic of the missions?Why??????????What do you REALLY know about the missions, or what can be done with them by 3rd party developers?Please, enlighten me, as obviously you know something I do not.Also, do you feel that you will be forced to use the missions, is that why you are a critic of them?Or perhaps you feel that the missions are taking away from some other aspect of "realism" that you preferred MS spend their time on.Perhaps you already have FSX in your hands, and have experienced the missions and what 3rd party developers can do with them?Curious minds want to know! ;-)Actually, I think the missions are a GREAT idea, and will give more folks a good reason to fly.When I fly for real, I often look for a good reason, or a "mission". Then again, I do not fly a jet airliner on a schedule.In FACT, I am in the process of joining the US Coast Guard Auxiliary.Why? Because with my plane I can fly defined patrol "missions" for them, and truly put my plane to a good use. They also pay for my expenses when I do so.After a while, "$100 hamburgers" get a bit tiring. ;-)Also, what would be wrong with a 3rd party developer creating Angel Flight missions? I am sure you know what Angel Flight is all about.Heck, you could have an entire 3rd party program just for Angel Flight missions, and I suspect it would be a hit!Indeed, for those who fly their automated airliners with their "FS Passengers" from point A to B, there is little need for missions, but for the rest there is indeed a good need for them, and do not discount the "rest", as there are more of them than you may think.So, what is the problem with the missions again?????Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

Nice post, angel flight missions, rescue missions, charter missions, airline missions, excellent possibilities.FS Passengers is somewhat mission based as well as the information you can glean from within the current ABL (as far as I can tell) is very similar to the information FS Passengers displays about each flight you take and the sounds generated when certain parameters are met.Think of FS Passengers with the ability to have the program generate charter or airline schedules utilizing missions for each flight and have animated people waiting at the gate or refueling trucks and pushback vehicles or the guy guiding the plane as it comes in. Not sure if it is possible within FSX but it may just be. Disclaimer: Not meant to be another missions are great, missions suck argument, just agreeing with the above post and hoping to contribute to the excitement of missions.Ian.

This community needs the world's biggest enema.

Hi Lou,real missions I would agree wholeheartedly, but at what cost is my point. I don't want to see FS degenerate into an arcadey Xboxy thing that no longer resembles what we have now. Each version should improve on what we have and if possible add something new. Okay the missions are new, but what point if on approach to an airport some plank in an AI plane still runs me up the backside and I lose a whole evenings flying. Don't forget that at least in Multiplayer we already have missions, there's an Aerobatics tournament coming up in June I believe, and who could forget BOTA. I agree with you wholeheartedly about mercy missions and such and I'd be there flying them. I always use some of your great GA aircraft around Xmas to do my "Santa Runs". Short hops round small Bush airfields taking whatever to people who can't get the stuff. Okay virtually and takes a bit of imagination, but I thought that was what FS was about.I'm a critic of the missions because they seem arcadey, if I'm proved wrong I'll be the first to admit it, publicly and on line. But there is somewhere a bit that did say some planes would be tied in with missions, my point is I don't want to have to fly a mission to get access to a plane, would that not be just what all of us don't want? An arcade game where you have to complete x-mission to get y-plane? I would like to be able to fly that plane where and whenever I please.I admire what you want to do, and if you guys can and do use the mission thing to write something whereby we can fly for the Coastguard or whatever then great, I'll be in the queue to buy it. I also have the Abacus CAP add-on, and do from time to time fly CAP missions, but I can still fly the planes outside that. And it is actually based on reality, which loops us right back to the beginning does it not?

I'm not sure how some have percieved the missions as something that must be done. The developers have stated very clearly that the "sandbox" aspect of FS is still there and the missions do not have to be used at all, and considering that FS9 has just about the same mission capability as FSX, I'm not sure what everyone is gettting riled up about. All they are doing is making the mission creation easier in this version so more people will create them unlike FS9 where a bit of programming knowledge was needed.Ian.

The key is to wait, and not pre-judge, and as with many things in FS, if you do not like it, don't use it.Right now I see many folks jumping to conclusions and, BTW, I wouldn't mind being able to sharpen my flying skills in real life by flying through hoops, etc. Who cares if it is "arcade-ish". My family used to own arcades years ago.I think the mission feature is getting a bad rap, is is very much underrated as to what can be done with it, and everyone should just wait and see.Today, however, my "mission" is different. Going out to the airport to paint the inside of my baggage door, then hooking up my new altitude alert to the audio panel.Monday, my mission is a $200 hamburger at Block Island (KBID) with a friend who flies / instructs on Falcon Jets. So, on Monday, anyone who wishes can go on a mission to BID.Just depart KCDW at 11:30 AM, and meet me at the National Hotel! ;-)On June 3rd my mission is to fly in to the AOPA open house at KFDK, along with about 500 other planes all arriving within a couple of hours of each other!Or, as I remember from the old TV show "Mission Impossible":"Your mission, Jim, should you decide to accept it...." ;-)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

It was posted that the hoops and "arcadish" missions were just created at the last minute for E3! In fact the red bull race was the only mission showed that will be included in the final package. This was due to the fact that they could 't show a hour(s) long mission at a trade show! Read: http://blogs.technet.com/p-12c_pilot/archi.../15/428658.aspxSo please stop this non-sense about FSX being arcade like game !!

>I'm a critic of the missions because they seem arcadey, if I'm>proved wrong I'll be the first to admit it, publicly and on>line. But there is somewhere a bit that did say some planes>would be tied in with missions, my point is I don't want to>have to fly a mission to get access to a plane, would that not>be just what all of us don't want? An arcade game where you>have to complete x-mission to get y-plane? I would like to be>able to fly that plane where and whenever I please.You are completely wrong. ALL "flyable" aircraft will be available for your use in the Sandbox (i.e., "Free Fly") mode. See Jason's response to this same misinformation in another thread here: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...e=&topic_page=5The "mission system" will - among other things - allow 3rd party folks to create everything from "Tutorial Flights" for their products, to advanced "Cargo Handling & Delivery"... all without requiring an external program.

<>Really? Maybe you want to re-read that. Everything we showed at E3 will be in the shipping product (hopefully).

Can I just back up Bill here and point out that Mission system ADDS functionality whilst removing NONE. The FS Free Flight you know and love will still be there except maybe a little better - nothing is being taken out. I hope you've all got this message by now...

Yes, I saw the other post after my post that Bill is referring to. And it looks like I was wrong about the missions, along with a lot of other ppl. At least I sincerely hope we were anyway.

What does the following sentence say then? ; "we had 5 missions on display. One of them (the sailplane mission) we built in a few hours specifically to show on the Elumens dish, but it won't ship with the product. The Learjet mission flying through floating targets over Moffet Airfield was another last minute addition and was added simply because it's fun to fly and combines speed and attitude control, situational awareness, and can be completed in about 4 minutes. It also shows off how I can light your engines on fire at will :). Again this is another mission that will not ship in the product as is. Another mission in the ultralight is also an E3 only mission in it's presented form."

If the readership here represents, perhaps, 80% who will enjoy the title for far simpler reasons.MSFS is a title with few "real" competitors and they likely have to make sales figures which include realing in the 80% of the masses who think that missions are "cool." Who knows? If they are a replacement for the adventure system then many "realistic" applications may emerge. In any case, since the simulator is a "kitchen sink" and "one-size-fits-all" title, it has to sell at one price point. The "pro" version didn't seem to pan out as evidenced by its absence this last time around. I, for one, would GLADLY pay a few hundred $$ for a real "pro" version, but I don't think the ACES team is structured this way and have likely learned some about FS2000 that suggests that a "pro" version is a dead end.I'd say that the past should be our guide as to whether FSX will be a disappointment - generally, each title offers more and keeps the flame lit. All the fanboisms and sycophantry aside, the devels certainly took a risk at abuse when they opened themselves up to scrutiny by blogging and hanging about. If their conclusion that their public participation duing the beta process is that participation causes too much extra stress in comparison to benefits it accrues - they won't do it again and we, as a community, will not have learned much in any case. We are going to have nay-sayers and whingers no matter which way the wind blows.There is an old saying:"Never come between a man and his hobby..."Well, the passion people have for a title that can mean so many different things to different people is always going to bring about dissent. Whinging about whingers is just as disingenious as whinging about developers. All in all, it is good to see the project lead "taking the ####" from his detractors. Anybody can be a critic, few can be a creator.I'll put my money down for FSX and all additional versions which remain true to the product. History says that stewards of MSFS have taken their role seriously - I have no reason to expect that this will change.Having said all of this, allow me to whinge:"Please, oh please, oh pretty pretty please, document the .air file system and allow for easy editing of its parameters.":-)