Will FS10 finally herald the end of the 2D panels

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

JPMaybe we shouldnt be talking about 2D panels or VCs because it places us in one camp or the other.All to their own :-) What I would like to say is "realism" and how to best achieve that.On a flat screen it will be difficult to achieve but hey this is a simulator and we simulate.Anything which makes the experience more real has to be a plus and I dont really care whether that is 2D VC or some new development not yet found.For me the 2D is unrealistic in its views and the VCs which are getting better still do not achieve what I am looking for which is realism in all aspects of the sim.But they are more realistic from my perspective than 2D panels Whatever MS come up with which makes the panel views and human periferal views more realistic will come out with my vote whatever the technology to achieve it.Peter

[Guest Wichita]

Not a chance.....David

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

>Well, I can say this..... A permanent removal of 2D panels essentially equals at least partial removal of backwards compatibility....

[flyking 0]

I sure hope not!You may like 3d but you definetly don't speak for me. Why are so many 3d Lovers always jumping on the "soap box" and advocating the cessation of 2d. Or since you like 3d why would I want to stick my nose in your buisness and run around saying "lets just do away with 3d because I prefer 2d." Just because you like 3d exclusively don't assume that every other simmer does as well. Whats wrong with having both?

[LAdamson 240]

At least I think so!Reading back through a few replies, I see this quote:"Panels in a real aircraft are static and to simulate that the best way is with 2D panels."So here I'm flying the new DreemFleet Baron with Reality XP GPS, and the panel is too wide to realistically get one side to the other on a single monitor screen. The 2D panel is split in two, which makes good sense for clarity of instruments.Now, realistically, in the real airplane, I can easily see over the glareshield/panel and through the windscreen, as well as scan the entire panel with little eye movement to notice if something seems out of place. With straight 2D, this is impossible. I have to shift to one side or the other. Back & forth, and back & forth, or simply loose some scan, such as the GPS.But...............with the virtual cockpit and a .50 to .75 zoom, I can easily see what's outside the airplane, as well as constantly scan the entire panel on my 21" monitor. If any instrument, radio stack, or GPS needs a close look, I simply click on it, for a larger 2D version. Easy to do, and more realistic than bringing up panel portions at different times!L.Adamson

[StoneC0ld 5]

Dunno, was that the majority? I never looked back on that thread after I voted..... :(

[edetroit 933]

Ditto! Let's have both guy's! :-hahNo 2D lover has said let's have 2D only a/cI find it a little selfish for the 3D lovers to wish for a VC only version when it is quite obvious that opinion is split. :-sun1

regardsEd

http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/127932.jpgAMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 128Mb DDR Nvidia 6600GT PCI Express, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant

[guy 24]

The perspective from the VC is without doubt more realistic then that from 3D. But also without doubt the 2d panels are mostly more clear and easy to read.I personally fly the general aircraft up to Learjet size entirely from VC. But with the big jets I use the VC mostly only for sightseeing and also on approaches and landings that I handfly.Guy

[Guest Jeff @ F1]

I agree, 2D needs to stick around as it is the best panel option for training purposes without hardware. It is also much easier to move around for those just jumping into the hobby. Some great 2D work has been done to allow users to have access to everything with a couple of clicks and it continues to improve.3D VCs have come a long way, but I don't think the community as a whole is ready to make the complete jump yet. Jeff SmithFlight One Software

[Guest Pabra]

JP,I didn't :-roll , the fear of losing 2d is obvious in your response, but after all 2d is just popup bitmaps with gauges, not too hard to maintain in future versions..made a couple myself looong ago for fs2k.regardsPaul@ehgg

[G7USL 117]

I agree with you Ed,For me, it's ok as it is. Most VC views are too dark.The only one I have that IS useable, and you can't tell it apart from the "2D' view is David Chesters superb 'VC-10'! Simply the best.Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[mcwdainow 0]

Personally, I'm not to fond of 2D.. being a GA pilot in real life I find it just too.. 2D ;) However I would agree the pop ups such as radios are very useful.. I vote to keep both but maybe even an option in Flight Sim to "turn off" that particular view. So instead of having to cycle through the 2D panel, its the virtual cockpit by default.Edit: and the same for people who use 2D panels exclusively.

[JP_Visser 3]

well,I must first apologize,as i may have expressed myself too strongly.If i did,i'm sorry.However,the reason i did is what Ed summed up nicely as:"No 2D lover has said let's have 2D only a/cI find it a little selfish for the 3D lovers to wish for a VC only version when it is quite obvious that opinion is split."I have now read countless threads of peoplesaying "MS do away with the 2d,blah blah blah"but always because they do not like it,and apparently do not care about those who do. That irritates me,and causes reactions as the one above.I'll never say MS should do away with 3d,as "it hinders progress"or "is totally unrealistic",or even "not how i like it".As i said before,2d or 3d is just an option,in a sim with many other options.let's keep it like that,please."So, why do you mind when other people state THEIR OPINION that the VC is the best? Its just a opinion made, and its not a fact. Even if it was, why would you mind? It doesnt effect you, or any one else. Its just preference."I do not mind if someone voices his opinion,however,I DO mind if someone for the umpteenth time decideswe 2d afficionado's are folks hindering progress,with less brainvolume as an ant.And yes,that is what basically every VC thread says between the lines.By patronizing me for MY opinion(as i've clearly stated) you just prove my right,really.cheersJP.

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

JPNobody is patronising anybody. It is only by debate that we can discuss and disect aspects of the sim.Occasionaly I may change your view and the same way you may change mine. Sometimes through debate we may get a better understanding of where someone is coming from. Sometimes we find a solution which neither of us had.Often it is a matter of preference where neither is right or wrong and occasionally a few comments are chucked into the pot to stir emotions and encourage further debate ;-)Again now again we may have to beg to differ but as long as we all respect each others views and each other then.....???For me I prefer the VC as it gives a better feeling of periferal view.Neither is ideal but I like most here want as real experience in the sim as possible however that is achieved 2D VC or some yet to be discovered alternative. :-)If any of my own comments have appeared as patronising then I am the one to apologise as that was never my intention.Finally having read through your posts I cannot see anything said which was too strong.Peter

[ejoiner 21]

Ed we should ask Aerosim for a tape gauged model of the L-1011... I was thinking same thing. I mean..flying Lockheed aircraft without tape gauges!!! Please.Eric