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Matt Booty Interview - short mention of MSFS

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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-10-the-big-xbox-interview-scarlett-cross-gen-halo-infinite-and-the-lack-of-fable

“We decided it would be a good statement to have Flight Simulator in there because it's a game with deep connections to Microsoft's roots - the first game we ever published - it makes a statement. But you could say it's a PC thing, the folks who get into them often buy specialised joysticks, throttles, multi-monitor setups. They're some of the most passionate about building rigs. But at the same time, we're also going to bring that game to Xbox consoles. Why? Because people want to play it on Xbox and we'll figure out a way to make it work. So, platforms, even competing ones, comes down to us following the players and seeing where they want that content.”

 

Does that help you guys understand the whole Xbox vs PC mindset? I also see another reference to the passionate slimming community. So the studio heads are aware it seems. No idea what that means or what they think the community wants and will deliver but I believe it to be a good sign they recognize this hardcore community exists. 

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2 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I also see another reference to the passionate slimming community. So the studio heads are aware it seems. No idea what that means or what they think the community wants and will deliver but I believe it to be a good sign they recognize this hardcore community exists. 

I agree, this is a good thing to read.  Again, no idea how that sentiment is translated for us hardcore simmers, but the door seems open to MS considering what we'd like to see in the new MSFS2020.



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After reading the dialog about MSFS I'm not so sure MS (specifically Mr. Booty) fully understands the standard and scope of realism flight simmers (will) hold them to.

If MS thinks that gamers want to play flight simulator on their Xbox, I think we simmers can all agree that will last about 10 minutes and then off to "shooting and killing" they will return....maybe returning to FS for a quick spin once or twice a year. 

As a flight simmer I have very little interest in Halo or any other shooter, and I would not expect MS to make flight simmers the target audience for Halo. Why would anybody think gamers would have a vested interest in FS? A passion for aviation is unique, but a passion for realistic flight simulation is unique in the extreme...there is nothing like it. Why would a flight simmer buy an Xbox to run flight sim, when they already have a PC setup that does the job...makes no sense. Even if the new Xbox is very powerful, it still will have nothing on the PC, but it may likely be just as expensive.🤷‍♂️ 

What was the phrase "As real as it gets"? (I wonder if that will return to the "box cover"?...it needs to) Where punching in descent winds matters ( gamers will not even care to do such things ), where the weather forecast matters ( gamers will set clear and sunny daytime a likely 97% of the time ), I/we could go on and on.

We'll see what happens...🧐🔎🔬🔭📡😵

It is absolutely vital for the life of this new MSFS that MS knows there is a distinct difference between gamers and simmers - two totally different targets that have nothing to do with each other. To attempt to blend them once again will be totally rejected by simmers.  

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The full interview with Phil Spencer (Head of Xbox division) was also published over at PCGamer https://www.pcgamer.com/xboxs-phil-spencer-on-game-pass-steam-and-the-epic-games-store/

Page 2 specifically has a couple lines about Flight Sim.

Quote

Why did you bring Flight Simulator back? What led to that moment?

We do have some pilots on the teams that are big fans of flight, and flight sims, and flying themselves, who are passionate about it, so we said, 'okay, let's see what we can do'

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, pracines said:

After reading the dialog about MSFS I'm not so sure MS (specifically Mr. Booty) fully understands the standard and scope of realism flight simmers (will) hold them to.

If MS thinks that gamers want to play flight simulator on their Xbox, I think we simmers can all agree that will last about 10 minutes and then off to "shooting and killing" they will return....maybe returning to FS for a quick spin once or twice a year. 

 As a flight simmer I have very little interest in Halo or any other shooter, and I would not expect MS to make flight simmers the target audience for Halo. Why would anybody think gamers would have a vested interest in FS? A passion for aviation is unique, but a passion for realistic flight simulation is unique in the extreme...there is nothing like it. Why would a flight simmer buy an Xbox to run flight sim, when they already have a PC setup that does the job...makes no sense. Even if the new Xbox is very powerful, it still will have nothing on the PC, but it may likely be just as expensive.🤷‍♂️ 

 What was the phrase "As real as it gets"? (I wonder if that will return to the "box cover"?...it needs to) Where punching in descent winds matters ( gamers will not even care to do such things ), where the weather forecast matters ( gamers will set clear and sunny daytime a likely 97% of the time ), I/we could go on and on.

 We'll see what happens...🧐🔎🔬🔭📡😵

It is absolutely vital for the life of this new MSFS that MS knows there is a distinct difference between gamers and simmers - two totally different targets that have nothing to do with each other. To attempt to blend them once again will be totally rejected by simmers.  

He said he knows the passion the simmers have for this hobby and they would figure out a way the casual gamer could enjoy some of this passion (missions with simple aircrafts like the icon, in really paradisiac places are one of the ways to do so).

20 years ago, when I was a little kid, I didn't care much about checklists, procedures etc. I just wanted to take off with the Orbit boeing out of Meigs field and look around.

You can add levels of complexity in the sim and they will figure it out. The important aspect of this interview is, they will adapt to make it easier for the casual games, not the other way around. This makes me believe they will build it as a complex simulator and with the right add-ons you will have the full pilot experience.

The other thing they said that make me believe in what I said is, they are developing it to be the best SIMULATOR on the market. Of course this can be just marketing, but it is something I would consider very promising. 

Also have in mind they have flight enthusiasts and real pilots on the team. They know what to do with their new tech. Someone found out that a guy that used to work on Boeing is one the guys working on the project.

Edited by ca_metal
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8 minutes ago, LB777 said:

Why did you bring Flight Simulator back? What led to that moment?

We do have some pilots on the teams that are big fans of flight, and flight sims, and flying themselves, who are passionate about it, so we said, 'okay, let's see what we can do'

I would rather have MS say to themselves: "lets see where the flight sim community is feature wise, amongst all sims, addons n all, and lets blow that out of the water." 😁

3 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

The important aspect of this interview is, they will adapt to make it easier for the casual games, not the other way around. This makes me believe they will build it as complex simulator and with the right add-ons you will have the full pilot experience.

We have that already. 

4 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

20 years ago, when I was a little kid, I didn't care much about checklists, procedures etc. I just wanted to take off with the Orbit boeing out of Meigs field and look around.

And to do that, one can still get FS4 or FS2000 or FSX - old news - been there done that - and still available for anybody at that stage. Later when they get deeply interested will they have to go to more of the same?

To give you some of my perspective - I tolerated the 2-D when 3D was not available - I tolerated 5 flight areas in the USA in the early days - I tolerated simple cockpits, at least they were digitized and multi colored. I have seen the possibilities today, I do not excuse any flight sim company that does not exceed what we already have in base and add-ons, I personally will not tolerate stagnation or going backwards for any reason.    

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Posted (edited)

@pracines

I guess I don't understand what you wanted from MS in a surprise announcement here.  It has all the hints of being an amazing new entry in the series.  A series, mind you, we thought was dead forever basically (barring continuing to extend old old base versions of it). 

What would you like MS to say that will get you onboard and really excited about the future here?

Edited by irrics

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8 minutes ago, pracines said:

We have that already. 

And to do that, one can still get FS4 or FS2000 or FSX - old news - been there done that - and still available for anybody at that stage. Later when they get deeply interested will they have to go to more of the same?

To give you some of my perspective - I tolerated the 2-D when 3D was not available - I tolerated 5 flight areas in the USA in the early days - I tolerated simple cockpits, at least they were digitized and multi colored. I have seen the possibilities today, I do not excuse any flight sim company that does not exceed what we already have in base and add-ons, I personally will not tolerate stagnation or going backwards for any reason.    

I'm talking about the casual gamer aspect he talked about. I wouldn't be worried they will try to sell it for casual gamers, as he said they would figure how to do it and as I understand, they will do it without compromising the simulator for the guys who want it to be a full and complex simulator and are really passionate about it.

FS4 or FS2000 or even FSX are not something that would make casual gamers want to use them. They are old, they look bad, they perform bad. The new simulator has to the opposite of it.

Again, looking from a casual gamer's perspective, as they want to reach them on the Xbox Console.

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23 minutes ago, pracines said:

I would rather have MS say to themselves: "lets see where the flight sim community is feature wise, amongst all sims, addons n all, and lets blow that out of the water." 😁

We have that already. 

And to do that, one can still get FS4 or FS2000 or FSX - old news - been there done that - and still available for anybody at that stage. Later when they get deeply interested will they have to go to more of the same?

To give you some of my perspective - I tolerated the 2-D when 3D was not available - I tolerated 5 flight areas in the USA in the early days - I tolerated simple cockpits, at least they were digitized and multi colored. I have seen the possibilities today, I do not excuse any flight sim company that does not exceed what we already have in base and add-ons, I personally will not tolerate stagnation or going backwards for any reason.    

I'm sorry but we don't "have that already" in a next-generation package. If you want to ignore the difference in visual fidelity and performance, fine. But those are major, major advancements for a lot of people, including people like me that just don't play the old generation simulators anymore after putting years and years into them.

DCS World, an incredibly realistic simulator, has an arcade mode. It's really not difficult at all to incorporate and the interview makes it clear that they'll figure that out later. That says their initial focus is on a full fidelity simulator with work on beginner modes coming later. It doesn't even sound like the full scope of the Xbox version has been decided yet, which is a good thing because that means it's all about the PC right now.

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13 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

I'm talking about the casual gamer aspect he talked about. I wouldn't be worried they will try to sell it for casual gamers, as he said they would figure how to do it and as I understand, they will do it without compromising the simulator for the guys who want it to be a full and complex simulator and are really passionate about it.

FS4 or FS2000 or even FSX are not something that would make casual gamers want to use them. They are old, they look bad, they perform bad. The new simulator has to the opposite of it.

Again, looking from a casual gamer's perspective, as they want to reach them on the Xbox Console.

Exactly. The very fact that they have to "figure out how to do it" says that there's going to be some serious work coming to simplify features for the Xbox mode. If it was going to be a "lite" simulator from the start, there'd be nothing to figure out later.

This game is clearly, 100% being designed for the PC and they don't even appear to have the full plan for the Xbox yet. The Xbox will be the changed, ported version based on what they are saying, not the other way around.

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I assume that they're going to support VR hardware, and that the XBOX Scarlett platform will get support for VR goggles and controllers. That would even things out a bit, at least for "casual" users who don't intend to use flight sim specific hardware.

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41 minutes ago, irrics said:

@pracines

I guess I don't understand what you wanted from MS in a surprise announcement here.  It has all the hints of being an amazing new entry in the series.  A series, mind you, we thought was dead forever basically (barring continuing to extend old old base versions of it). 

What would you like MS to say that will get you onboard and really excited about the future here?

(so far) This new MSFS has hints of looking great in a few geographic areas (we already have that) , PBR (we already have that), HQ airports (we already have that). That hanger shot is something I would like to investigate, but I must suspect that if that is in sim, its at one special airport, for purposes of a "mission", possibly/likely as a video intro to a mission. 

It does not have any indication of real wx (who cares if the TS looks threatening if we have to purposely set that wx each flight, static wx is worthless except for screenshots), ATC (no IFR ever? or we fake it?), two basics. Again I could go on and on. 

Looks on the surface are not everything, SUBSTANCE in realism is what we need. 

I've been down this road of a new sim on the horizon so many times since the late 80's, and SubLogic/Microsoft was always the winner, until MS Flight. When MS pulled that stunt it did not work. I personally gave MS a chance to change course all the way to the end. However I can forgive and forget. 

Today I'm (we're) not fooled by ANY company including LM, LR, and MS --- ANY talk about appealing to "casual simmers" (the futile attempt to meld simmers & gamers-it wont work!) or gamers, even in the slightest, will fail. This should be a warning from this community to MS in a very loud voice. My hope is that we all can be united about this so MS will not be tempted to dumb down ANY aspect of this simulator. If they do keep it simple for beginners/gamers It will fail because beginners and gamers are unable/unwilling to support it.

Please don't get me wrong I want this new MSFS to be a success as much as anybody - likely even more than most, if not all, including the lead developer of MSFS.

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1 hour ago, bonchie said:

I'm sorry but we don't "have that already" in a next-generation package. If you want to ignore the difference in visual fidelity and performance, fine. But those are major, major advancements for a lot of people, including people like me that just don't play the old generation simulators anymore after putting years and years into them.

DCS World, an incredibly realistic simulator, has an arcade mode. It's really not difficult at all to incorporate and the interview makes it clear that they'll figure that out later. That says their initial focus is on a full fidelity simulator with work on beginner modes coming later. It doesn't even sound like the full scope of the Xbox version has been decided yet, which is a good thing because that means it's all about the PC right now.

You are misquoting me.

When you read carefully what I say in response to exactly what I responded to, then we can communicate.🙂

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, pracines said:

It does not have any indication of real wx

They've said, word for word, real weather powered what we saw in the video

 

From Phil Spencer direct in the PG Gamer interview:

I was like "you've gotta put that in the video because it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen". It's using real geographical data, real weather data, to give you the ability to literally fly around what looks like a living planet.

Edited by irrics

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1 hour ago, ca_metal said:

I'm talking about the casual gamer aspect he talked about. I wouldn't be worried they will try to sell it for casual gamers, as he said they would figure how to do it and as I understand, they will do it without compromising the simulator for the guys who want it to be a full and complex simulator and are really passionate about it.

FS4 or FS2000 or even FSX are not something that would make casual gamers want to use them. They are old, they look bad, they perform bad. The new simulator has to the opposite of it.

Again, looking from a casual gamer's perspective, as they want to reach them on the Xbox Console.

I don't care about what casual gamers want in a flight sim - I care about aviation realism. In the same way, Halo players don't care about what I want in Halo....this is the order of things.

OR should I expect from MS that Halo be something that I want and forget what the gamers want?

 

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