patrickbc

FlightSimLabs comments on MSFS 2020:

Recommended Posts

"The Concorde-X for 64-bit is now officially on pause. (...), we have to ensure that we align our business model with the significant development news that we received from Microsoft, and since the aircraft is so specialized, we prefer to evaluate further once there are more details on the new platform."

"We were very happy to read the announcement of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator platform (which most now affectionately call "MSFS 2020"). It signals the return of one of the most prolific products that our good friends in Redmond have developed and we are all very excited to take a preview look into what looks to be technologies bringing the simulated world to a new level of immersion. We've seen the same previews as you have and they are certainly breathtaking! We cannot, however, provide any details or answer any questions about "MSFS 2020" at the present time, other than to say that our excitement about this next version is the same as yours!"

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

For the word "excitement" read instead; "Inadvertent bowel movement".

They tend to coincide with each other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty big decision for them to make if they don't actually know anything. We are at least a year off from FS2020 releasing.

Maybe they've been briefed?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To make such a decision so soon after Microsoft’s announcement seems knee-jerk to me. I have suspected for some time that work on a 64-bit Concorde was taking a back seat to their Airbus work. Microsoft’s announcement makes it easy for them to halt work without having to explain why.

Personally I couldn’t give two hoots about FS2020. It might look impressive but if there’s no SDK then what happens to FSUIPC, GoFlight drivers and all the 3rd party software we rely on to make flying so enjoyable?

Concorde is probably the world’s most iconic passenger aircraft. Not to have a 64-bit version would be a bitter pill to swallow. FSL need to reconsider this decision because I’m sure they would sell more Concordes than a third Airbus model. They all look the bloody same anyway and all fly at exactly the same speed - 850mph slower than Concorde! 😠

  • Like 5
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

Personally I couldn’t give two hoots about FS2020. It might look impressive but if there’s no SDK then what happens to FSUIPC, GoFlight drivers and all the 3rd party software we rely on to make flying so enjoyable?

Come on Ray. No one has stated anything about there being no SDK.  This was just announced last week so virtually everything currently being batted about is conjecture.

Personally I think there will be an SDK. If not immediately on release, shortly thereafter. But, my opinion means just as much as the next guy.

 

  • Like 10
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Pretty big decision for them to make if they don't actually know anything. We are at least a year off from FS2020 releasing.

Maybe they've been briefed?

Nope. They've self-briefed. There's a big difference.

There's no way they're in. Or I will eat my hat.

MS wouldn't touch FSL with a barge-pole - you think they don't do their research?

Edited by ganter
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way better response than some other devs.  

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't they the devs who took on forever to deliver their Airbus? If it is like this, it's no surprise that before doing something that takes years again they consider what happens with Microsoft.

Also all those who are worried about their current addons can still play their current addons in their current sims and be happy and let new platforms take on new challenges and hopefully improvements without the worry of backward compatibility.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, 188AHC said:

Come on Ray. No one has stated anything about there being no SDK.  This was just announced last week so virtually everything currently being batted about is conjecture.

Personally I think there will be an SDK. If not immediately on release, shortly thereafter. But, my opinion means just as much as the next guy.

Okay Rick, let’s assume there will be an SDK for argument’s sake. We already have a 64-bit sim with P3D v4 with v5 probably within a year.

Apart from the improved scenery FS2020 shows for the limited parts of the world in that video what other benefits are there to switch from P3D? It will take time for drivers, utilities and scenery to be made available assuming Microsoft make it as easy as LM do now. That will come at a cost to the user. For what? Swapping one 64-bit sim for another!

If the new one requires you to stream it rather than have all the data on your SSD that is a massive turn-off for many including me. I wouldn’t go near it.

If we still had a 32-bit P3D I could understand the attraction of a 64-bit one but that isn’t the case. Microsoft has come to the party too late. They should have done it 3 years ago before P3D v4. Th3y would have cleared up. They won’t now because so many people have invested so much with P3D. I’m staying with LM and I suspect I won’t be alone.

Going back to FSL the work required to convert their P3D Airbuses to Microsoft code could take them years given how slowly the products come out. I just don’t see the attraction of this new sim.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
Spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, bonchie said:

We are at least a year off from FS2020 releasing.

Are we really? I doubt that. Don't be fooled by the name, every MS Flight Simulator version with a date in its name was released in the preceding year to its name: FS98 in '97, FS2000 in 1999, FS2002 in 2001 and FS2004 in 2003. And even if this were not the case, I'd put serious money on MS's new sim coming out this year, to allow MS to capitalise on the publicity wave they are currently riding.

Edited by Chock
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chock said:

 Are we really? I doubt that. Don't be fooled by the name, every MS Flight Simulator version with a date in its name was released in the preceding year to its name: FS98 in '97, FS2000 in 1999, FS2002 in 2001 and FS2004 in 2003. And even if this were not the case, I'd put serious money on MS's new sim coming out this year, to allow MS to capitalise on the publicity wave they are currently riding.

They already announced it coming in 2020 😛

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I am afraid that this will only be one of many projects that are going to be put on hold for the next 12-18 months. It will most likely kill the sales for a large part of our developers for both hardware and software. As fancy as the MS trailer looks and 4 or 5 years down the road it may be quite the thing. In the mean time it is going to have some real down sides no matter how excited folks are right now. It is something that has not be discussed to this point. I am just not sure what the best answer is but it is going to be a big problem unless maybe MS is forth coming with a lot of info. For the young guys and gals...plenty of time to wait. To us old farts losing 18 months to Microsofts move to kill the market until they are ready is hard to swallow.

Edited by shivers9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Christian2920 said:

They already announced it coming in 2020 😛

Yup, but they didn't sign that in blood, did they? 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Going back to FSL the work required to convert their P3D Airbuses to Microsoft code could take them years given how slowly the products come out. I just don’t see the attraction of this new sim.

Yes, this could be the case assuming there is a SDK for MS2020 of course.

I think it is important to clarify that basically you would not be talking about converting code, it is like starting from scratch (from P3D or FSX) so perhaps this is the reason FSLABS wants to wait.

It could take years to see many addons to be ported over, and depending on SDK capabilities they might be better, worse or impossible to be converted, so lots of possibilities will depend on the power MS wish to give to 3rd parties DLC content providers.

Regards,

Simbol

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know that some major players don't already have some sort of SDK to work with. 

Anyone is welcome to prove this either way. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, 188AHC said:

We don't know that some major players don't already have some sort of SDK to work with. 

Anyone is welcome to prove this either way. 

We don't know that some major players do already have some sort of SDK to work with. 

Anyone is welcome to prove this either way.

There are more things to be considered here than just a big cheer and a toast to the King.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Okay Rick, let’s assume there will be an SDK for argument’s sake. We already have a 64-bit sim with P3D v4 with v5 probably within a year.

Apart from the improved scenery FS2020 shows for the limited parts of the world in that video what other benefits are there to switch from P3D? It will take time for drivers, utilities and scenery to be made available assuming Microsoft make it as easy as LM do now. That will come at a cost to the user. For what? Swapping one 64-bit sim for another!

If the new one requires you to stream it rather than have all the data on your SSD that is a massive turn-off for many including me. I wouldn’t go near it.

If we still had a 32-bit P3D I could understand the attraction of a 64-bit one but that isn’t the case. Microsoft has come to the party too late. They should have done it 3 years ago before P3D v4. Th3y would have cleared up. They won’t now because so many people have invested so much with P3D. I’m staying with LM and I suspect I won’t be alone.

Going back to FSL the work required to convert their P3D Airbuses to Microsoft code could take them years given how slowly the products come out. I just don’t see the attraction of this new sim.

Ray,

 

Do you really think P3D V5 will be anywhere close to MSFS 2020?  As much as I appreciate P3D, they’re limited by foundational code that prevents them from making monumental progress. Conversely, Microsoft has a proven record of making prodigious leaps, as it relates to flight simulation.  Consider the difference between Flight Simulator 5.0 and FSX (10 years); Microsoft was able to completely transform the simulator in less than a decade.  Can you image what Microsoft can do with 13 years of technical growth?  I suspect MSFS 2020 will be as advanced to FSX as FSX was to FS 5.0. Now, compare FSX to P3D V4 (13 years) and you’ll note the changes are mundane by comparison.  In fact, our community has been forced to endure minor improvements while other genres are employing AI and Edge Computing to deliver the latest gaming experience.  In short, I think this hardly constitutes swapping one 64 bit simulator for another. 

 

I understand FSL’s perspective; speaking anecdotally, it no longer makes sense to procure software for a platform that maybe rendered obsolete in 6 to 9 months.  To that end, all my P3D/Xplane purchases are on hold until we glean more information about MSFS 2020.  Microsoft’s announcement has completely flipped 3rd party development on its side; all the buzz is focused on Microsoft’s new platform and many seemed to have lost their appetite to fly in a VERY tired ESP environment.  After 2 decades, it’s time to move forward…this community deserves it more than anyone other!!  

 

One last comment, Microsoft has acknowledged this space is filled with people who procure copious amounts of hardware to augment their flying experience; I hope that statement translates into an SDK.    I do agree with you on that point, Ray.  It will be difficult to migrate without an FSUIPC like mechanism.  

  • Like 13
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Microsoft’s announcement has completely flipped 3rd party development on its side; all the buzz is focused on Microsoft’s new platform and many seemed to have lost their appetite to fly in a VERY tired ESP environment.  After 2 decades, it’s time to move forward…this community deserves it more than anyone other!!  

I am sure a lot of folks agree right now. You are putting a lot of faith in a company who just did a ton of damage to Devs and companies income for the next couple of years. They are the ones who really have made the FSX, Xpain, P3D all worth while. If MS does have a SDK and are working in the background with these folks then no harm and no foul. If that is not the case then they may have killed the hobby or at least as we know it. It is early times and we shall see.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first thought was that if the ConcordeX is so far from release that they are putting it on hold for 18 months, just how finished is it?  

 

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

To us old farts...

To help the younger crowd understand this, some of us have reached the age where we no longer buy green bananas.

Hook

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I am sure a lot of folks agree right now. You are putting a lot of faith in a company who just did a ton of damage to Devs and companies income for the next couple of years. They are the ones who really have made the FSX, Xpain, P3D all worth while. If MS does have a SDK and are working in the background with these folks then no harm and no foul. If that is not the case then they may have killed the hobby or at least as we know it. It is early times and we shall see.

First, Flight Sim would not even exist without Microsoft! Second, P3D is based on ESP, which Microsoft developed and sold.  The fact that Microsoft never charged a licensing fee to use their product is antithetical to how most companies/software developers operate.  Third party developers exist because of Microsoft, not the other way around; thus, your notion that Microsoft should be loyal to these third party developers is misplaced. I think it’s important to remember those fact.  Finally, my ‘faith’ is based on facts and 30-years of Microsoft operating within this space.  I also believe your sentiments about Microsoft potentially killing this hobby are extremely overstated.  If a market exist, I promise you somebody will fill it;  If consumers reject MSFS 2020, they have P3D and Xplane as options.  This space is growing, not retracting, sir.      

Edited by kingm56
  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chock said:

Are we really? I doubt that. Don't be fooled by the name, every MS Flight Simulator version with a date in its name was released in the preceding year to its name: FS98 in '97, FS2000 in 1999, FS2002 in 2001 and FS2004 in 2003. And even if this were not the case, I'd put serious money on MS's new sim coming out this year, to allow MS to capitalise on the publicity wave they are currently riding.

This isn't a Microsoft Flight Simulator with a date in its name.

The official page for the sim on xbox.com (including the PC release) names it as "Microsoft Flight Simulator." That's also the text in the logo. No date as part of the name.

We can call it Microsoft Simulator 2020 or anything else to avoid confusion with earlier versions, but Microsoft is calling it "Microsoft Flight Simulator" so I've been using the MSFS acronym.

I think this may be related to how MS is saying Windows 10 is the last named version, and it will all be Windows 10 going forward with updates. Same deal with other software publishers that are trying to move to a subscription model and not versions, like Adobe with Photoshop. I'm not implying with any knowledge that this will be subscription-based, but it's the trend away from version numbered updates.

So this may well be "Microsoft Flight Simulator" for now and forever in the future, for as long as MS supports it, and with whatever payment model they need to keep it in development.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

This isn't a Microsoft Flight Simulator with a date in its name.

Never said it was, I'm merely pointing out the trend that historically, MS has got its FS products out early.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

First, Flight Sim would not even exist without Microsoft! Second, P3D is based on ESP, which Microsoft developed and sold.  The fact that Microsoft never charged a licensing fee to use their product is antithetical to how most companies/software developers operate.  Third party developers exist because of Microsoft, not the other way around. I think it’s important to remember those fact.  Finally, my ‘faith’ is based on facts and 30-years of Microsoft operations within this space.  I also believe your sentiments about Microsoft potentially killing this hobby are extremely overstated.  If a market exist, I promise you somebody will fill it;  If consumers reject MSFS 2020, they have P3D and Xplane as options.  Moreover, have you considered the alternative?  Microsoft might be giving these developers a platform to continue their craft for the next 2 decades.   

Your points and opinion are well taken. I guess being an American I have trouble having a big party and putting a crown on someone's head until I know a little about them. LOL If nothing else some interesting times ahead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chock said:

Never said it was, I'm merely pointing out the trend that historically, MS has got its FS products out early.

Well, I'm sure the PC release will be out early as a test bed to thrash out the bugs before the Xbox release. I think that's one thing we can count on. 😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Convenient reason to can the Concorde project.......which the longer it takes, the less relevant it is.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now