Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
nickhod

What's Your Deal-breaker?

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

How many people buy apps and and virtual goods in apps for their mobile phones?

You do realize that Google & Apple take a "good chunk" of the DEV's gross sales and the mobile app business hasn't failed, and I don't hear people complaining about the cost of apps.

Is the mobile app business viable?

You're comparing a software market with a huge number of potential consumers that allows economies of scale to kick in, to a tiny niche market of flight sim enthusiasts. Those are entirely different markets. Apples and Oranges.

When you sell in very low numbers, you have to charge enough per-product to stay in business.

 

Quote

I don't mind spending more if it is worth it to me.

Well sure, I feel the same way. But the overall market doesn't only rely on those with plenty of discretionary income. It depends on what the actual market is willing to spend.

  • Upvote 1

X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pitbull2504 said:

if the game is designed too much for Xbox console. 

It's coming to PC first and, according to Phil Spencer, that's when they need to figure out a way to get it to the Xbox, so it's most likely focused on PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FlyBaby
1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

You're comparing a software market with a huge number of potential consumers that allows economies of scale to kick in, to a tiny niche market of flight sim enthusiasts. Those are entirely different markets. Apples and Oranges.

When you sell in very low numbers, you have to charge enough per-product to stay in business.

 

Actually you are wrong...

There are many apps (not like Angry birds) that cater to a smaller niche market and survive just fine although Google / Apple take a good chunk of their gross sales. 

 

Edited by FlyBaby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, threegreen said:

It's coming to PC first and, according to Phil Spencer, that's when they need to figure out a way to get it to the Xbox, so it's most likely focused on PC.

I know that. That's why my worries are not bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Montie said:

A new game engine, otherwise I can not be bothered.

I'd lay bets that you won't be bothering then, if true to your word. It's a bit weird that you will only buy something if it uses the technology you demand. Isn't how well it performs a bit more important than what method you expect them to use to achieve it?

The basic flight engines for both FSX and P3D are not too  bad. The problem with both of them has more been the way in which the scenery has been stored, unbundled and displayed. That consumes vast amounts of CPU - hence poor performance in high density scenery areas. Most OOMs have been caused by that problem. As far as I can see and understand from what we have seen of MSFS so far, it is the scenery that is getting the most focus to improve, and I have no doubt whatsoever that that part of the engine is under complete change.

It makes no sense at all to try to start a new simulator with a fresh piece of paper from ground up in the belief (hopes) that it can compete and improve on what's been around for years. It makes far more sense to "throw away" the weakest part (scenery)  and capitalize on the ongoing development of  - most likely FSW - and maybe even P3D. As far as I understand both contracts (from what little was made public), neither LM nor Dovetail Games were ever given complete rights to the FSX engine, so I would not be at all surprised to see a 64 bit engine remarkably similar to FSW and P3D (….including SimConnect)

Personally, I'd be MORE happy if that's what happened than if a new engine came out, because otherwise we'd be dealing with "engine bugs" (FoD)? for years to come. If the engine changes, the community's millions of dollars worth of addons for P3D and FSX would be worthless. Wouldn't most of us be happier if most/many of them still worked, rather than none?

I'd be totally thrilled with a new scenery engine though - and I'm sure I won't be disappointed, because that's exactly what we'll get for sure. I'm really excited about what I've seen, and would be more than happy to fly any of my current aircraft in that delicious eye-candy. I can't wait for it to become a reality.

……. I wonder if we'll soon be reading a press release that Active Sky or Rex have been acquired by Microsoft …. that would be interesting

 

 

 

Edited by sjt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Actually you are wrong...

There are many apps (not like Angry birds) that cater to a smaller niche market and survive just fine although Google / Apple take a good chunk of their gross sales. 

The market still functions differently, even for the small players. One very common approach for mobile apps is offering a free version that includes ads, or you can pay more for an ad-free version. Developers offering "free" mobile apps containing ads are probably making more money from the ads than from the purchased version. The flight sim market wouldn't put up with that approach.

The scale of the mobile app market is still a factor here too. It's hard to find even the most obscure app for a mobile phone that doesn't have at least a couple hundred downloads for an ad-based free version or a paid version. It's impossible to know the actual data for flight sim add-ons because nobody releases it, but I'll bet that many of the individual developers of aircraft and airports -- not the large outfits like Carenado or Orbx -- are lucky if they sell as many as 100 units.

Some of these individual developers are basically operating at a loss for the time investment, because they enjoy doing it. It's a hobby with a little income support on the side. And you want them to pay MS to distribute their work? If this kind of developer is locked out of the new MSFS, we're not going to have the full range of unusual aircraft that people design just because they love a particular aircraft. 

The mobile phone app and flight sim add-on market are just not comparable in any way, in my opinion.

  • Upvote 1

X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

If the base sim is good enough, then it won't need to depend "so much" on 3P DEVs to fill in the gaps. 

I agree with you that there are many fundamental gaps that should be addressed to form part of the base sim. 

It is still important that there is incentive for high end developers to develop complex add-ons.  

Edited by ErichB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am working on the assumption that I would need to purchase new addons for this next generation version of Microsoft Flight Simulator. There is next to no chance that any of my P3D addons would work, and even less chance of being granted permission to try by the developers of those addons.

Edited by Christopher Low

Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

FSBetaTesters3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FlyBaby
17 hours ago, Paraffin said:

The market still functions differently, even for the small players. One very common approach for mobile apps is offering a free version that includes ads, or you can pay more for an ad-free version. Developers offering "free" mobile apps containing ads are probably making more money from the ads than from the purchased version. The flight sim market wouldn't put up with that approach.

Again, you try to look at the app world in way that fits your argument, and distracts from my main point. 

There are paid apps (not just free apps that rely on in-app purchases / ads) that target a small niche market.

Some ad platforms will only pay if the user not only clicks the ad, but then both download and then open the advertised app, and then there is a minimum ad $$$ threshold that the host app must meet (on a monthly basis) before that ad platform even pays out.

SO NO....scale does not work for apps that have a "smaller" target market when the "ad" payout is only $3 per 1,000 downloads / opens / views.

So.............

My original point was that MSFS should charge 3P Devs who "sell" addons that depend on the base sim....much like Google and Apple charge app developers (I believe a 30% cut) who "sell" on their platform. Apps with smaller target markets survive today.

"Higher costs" (or the one choosing to "complain" about it) and "some DEvs not being able to survive" is the reality, not a deterrent for this type of business model.  

Time will tell if MSFS decides to go this route. However, MSFS has to see that FSX sells for $25 on the Steam with more than $5K worth of DLC. "I" would want a cut of that...

Your compassion for the possible hard times is comical because chances are..."you will buy it" and pay the higher costs no matter who gets left out in the cold. 

Stop with the charades and distractions, and keeping hitting that "refresh" button today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:02 AM, FlyBaby said:

Again, you try to look at the app world in way that fits your argument, and distracts from my main point.

Ok, you guys are way over my head with this discussion but I have one question. Is it possible that the next FS from Microsoft will have embedded ads? Now that would be a very strong deal beaker.

Edited by n4gix
REMOVED EXCESSIVE QUOTE!!! Please stop quoting the entire post you are replying to!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My deal breaker? Subscription. And yes, after having supported Flight by purchasing every DLC: DLCs which are bound to availability of servers. Well, for MSFS2020 we will be even more bound by and to MS server/streaming availabilities but I hope they learned and won’t let me down again


Phil Leaven

i5 10600KF, 32 GB 3200 RAM, MSI 3060 12GB OC, Asus ROG Z490-H, 2 WD Black NVME for each Win11 (500GB) and MSFS (1TB), MSFS Cache and Photogrammetry always disabled, Live Weather and Live Traffic always on, Res 2560x1440 on 27"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FlyBaby
16 hours ago, Wink207 said:

Ok, you guys are way over my head with this discussion but I have one question. Is it possible that the next FS from Microsoft will have embedded ads? Now that would be a very strong deal beaker.

That's a very good point.

I think that MS may have ads for things MSFS related. DTG does this in train simulator, where an ad will pop up (during the loading of a session) for new train routes etc. sold on steam.

I have not heard negative responses for these types of related ads; and, personally, i would not mind MSFS alerting me of a new plane or airport "while" the sim is loading.

But pop up ads are, in general, annoying especially for something not related to game / sim in use. In fact, many mobile apps use "annoying" ads just to generate "purchase" revenue by charging $1 to get rid of the ads.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Wink207 said:

Is it possible that the next FS from Microsoft will have embedded ads? Now that would be a very strong deal beaker.

Not if you can do banner towing 😃

  • Like 3

 P3D45, 8700K, RTX3080Ti, 32 GB, HDD 3 + 6 TB, SSD 0.5 TB Warthog HOTAS, Honeycomb Bravo, MFG pedals, Reverb G2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

 "....In fact, many mobile apps use "annoying" ads just to generate "purchase" revenue by charging $1 to get rid of the ads....."

Ha! I didn't know that. I discarded my mobile to retro back to my old flip phone.

Edited by Wink207

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...