Deltaair1212

ProFlight3 users?

Recommended Posts

Is anyone currently using PF3 with P3Dv4? I’m growing tired of the default ATC and want something realistic. I tried ProATCX a while ago but i Found the decent phase/landing phase to be completely unrealistic. That program is fine for departure and climb but the way it maneuvered my aircraft around airports coming into land sucked. One time it had me turn on a three mile short final I was literally over the airport whenever it happened I was like what the heck. So that program definitely needs to be tweaked. It’s a work in progress I should say. But I recently heard about PF3 and was curious because I don’t hear a lot about the program but on forums people compare it to RC4. Which most argue that was the best offline ATC program to date. I could never get it to work with P3Dv4 though. Anyways if anyone uses PF3 let me know in the comments what you think about it. I’m considering a purchase but need feedback first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

PF3 is by far the best ATC program on the market !

I have been using it on every flight for many years and am really happy with this choice !

PF3 and  P3Dv4 works great together...really very recommendable !

 

greetings

ggerolamo

Share this post


Link to post

Have you tried Radar Contact?  It's been re-released as freeware (details in the user support forum here on AVSIM), and is still my go-to ATC add-on, and i have most of them (including PF3 and Pro/ATC-X). 

My biggest issues with PF3 are some strange nonstandard terminology, something that RC4 gets right, and PF3 is somewhat non-intuitive and tedious setting up a flight.  PF3 does assign STARS and SIDS, but it spells them out phonetically..."You are cleared to fly the Oscar Zulu Zulu Zulu India One Arrival" which is to me, more of a buzzkill than no SID/STAR clearance at all.

Regards

 

Share this post


Link to post

It reminds me a little of the neverending discussion about the question "which sim is the better one? P3D or X-Plane" 

I was in front of the same question when i was looking for a good ATC and i have researched a lot about what was on the market. At least there are only 3 addons for atc which could be compared to each other. It´s PF3, ProATC and RC4(radarcontact). All of them have pros and cons. The main-reason why me decided at least to go with PF3 was the possibility of voicerecognition. Well, PF3 doesn´t have this feature, but there is another addon called "Multi-Crew-Experience" MCE which control all the functions of PF3 via voicerecognition.  The interesting part is, that in MCE you can talk very naturally to the machine and it will recognize what you said. The other important point was, that MCE provides me with a very good Co-Pilot who take over the checklists, and even the whole communication with ATC if you are too busy or if you just want him to do so. 

So it was in fact this combination of MCE and PF3 why i´ve choosen PF3. By the way, MCE can control RC4 in the same way. And if you want to have a real cockpitflow with talking to atc, and with a copi this would end in the options PF3 or RC4.

The other reason for me for PF3 was, that the developer is the one who created ProFlight 2000 and PF3 itself is an evolution of PF2000. PF2000 was in times of MSFS2000 the first atc-add-on that could give you an reality feeling using the former "adventures" wich where introduced in MSFS with the 2000 version, and at that time it was like an warpjump. Even in this early version you could use voicerecognition via "PushToTalk". Not as smart as today but it was cool. So this let me hope that the longtime experience of Oncourse SW will eliminate the last issues over the time in getting it "as real as it gets".

Indeed, the setup for a flight in PF3 is a little bit of additional workload but therefore it interacts with your Co-Pilot (MCE), with AI-traffic, native P3D or 3rd party AI like UTLive (you even hear the AI-pilots talking to the same station as you and it match with what you see in the SIM, it even give´s you taxi instructions on every airport, etc. 

In my opinion you schould take a closer look into the features of PF3 and MCE, and compare PF3 with RC4 and your personal preferences. Then you can´t do anything wrong. There are also "try before buy"-options for PF3 and MCE.

reg. Bernd

 

Share this post


Link to post

I use PF3 with P3D version 3.4, but it should work perfectly with Version 4. I used RC4 over a decade ago, for me it would be like going back to a flip phone compared to PF3. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, BerndB said:

At least there are only 3 addons for atc which could be compared to each other. It´s PF3, ProATC and RC4(radarcontact).

Seems you forget Pilot2ATC (which I use) and VoxATC. The difference from the three you mention is that they are voice controlled (headset) rather than menu, which for me is a big plus. They also use voice-synthesis for the ATC controllers.

Of the three you mention only ProATC/X handles SIDs and STARs properly and realistically. I switched to this after leaving RC4 when the promising RCv5 was cancelled.

I tried PF3 once, and it does have some advantages over the other two non-voice programs, but for me it is far too complex and, as already stated, has incorrect terminology.

Also, only voice synthesis implementations such as Pilot2ATC and VoxATC can handle all the airport and controller names. The others use pre-recorded voices which cannot be kept current or extensive enough. The downside of voice synthesis is the cost of adding a variety of decent ones.

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Deltaair1212 said:

... but on forums people compare it to RC4. Which most argue that was the best offline ATC program to date. I could never get it to work with P3Dv4 though.

I can assure you RC4 works fine with all versions of P3D. It still utilises the data from MakeRunways (thanks Pete!) and importantly, you will hear comms between ATC and other Ai. If you use AIG Ai the chatter is frequent.

Given RC4 is free you've nothing to lose by trying it. The forum is still here and I help as much as I'm able.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I can assure you RC4 works fine with all versions of P3D. It still utilises the data from MakeRunways (thanks Pete!) and importantly, you will hear comms between ATC and other Ai. If you use AIG Ai the chatter is frequent.

Given RC4 is free you've nothing to lose by trying it. The forum is still here and I help as much as I'm able.

I really did try to get it to work but to no avail. That’s the program I really want to use but it doesn’t agree with my sim for whatever reason. I did try to get support from the RC forum but there really wasn’t much “support” other than the people who have RC4 installed into their P3D bragging about how they got theirs to work 😂. But I want RC because not only do they have IFR but also VFR which I live because you don’t have to file a flight plan to use the program. From what I understand about it. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Deltaair1212, I don't have much experience with VFR flights, sorry. But others have got RC4 to work so it is posssible.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Deltaair1212, I don't have much experience with VFR flights, sorry. But others have got RC4 to work so it is posssible.

Well honestly I really need someone who already has the program installed with P3D to tell me the exact steps it takes. Because on a few threads I’ve read there are some dips and dives you gotta do to make it work but I need to know exactly what those are and exactly how to do them.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Seems you forget Pilot2ATC (which I use) and VoxATC. The difference from the three you mention is that they are voice controlled (headset) rather than menu, which for me is a big plus. They also use voice-synthesis for the ATC controllers.

Of the three you mention only ProATC/X handles SIDs and STARs properly and realistically. I switched to this after leaving RC4 when the promising RCv5 was cancelled.

I tried PF3 once, and it does have some advantages over the other two non-voice programs, but for me it is far too complex and, as already stated, has incorrect terminology.

Also, only voice synthesis implementations such as Pilot2ATC and VoxATC can handle all the airport and controller names. The others use pre-recorded voices which cannot be kept current or extensive enough. The downside of voice synthesis is the cost of adding a variety of decent ones.

Pete

 

"...too complex..." From the brilliant professional who brought us FSUIPC?

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Seems you forget Pilot2ATC (which I use) and VoxATC.

Indeed, you´re Right. 

For me the voicecontrol feature of those two wasn´t important because i already found MCE and decided to got with this aproach, because i was also desperate for a Co-Pilot reading checklists and handles all the ATC comms as PM while i´am flying the plane as PF. So i control via voice the CoPi from MCE and he controls all actions needed for PF3. That was what i was looking for to put an end of figuring out that i have "again" forgotten to switch on the strobes once i´am on cruise 😉 AND have all the ATC chattering around...

4 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

They also use voice-synthesis for the ATC controllers

That was a Little (very Little, but existing) minus for Pilot2Atc and VOX in my choice for PF3. Because i´ve read an review where all those ATC addons ex. RC4 where tested and explained and there was mentioned that the voice-synth. sounds more robotic compared to the pre-recorded Voices in PF3. Because i remembered the very good natural Sound of the voicesets from ProFlight2000 i pointed to PF3. Honestly i have to say that the soundsets of PF2000 where better and much more different than in PF3. But it´s ok Overall.

 

4 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Of the three you mention only ProATC/X handles SIDs and STARs properly and realistically.

Well, i would say it depends. I agree if you fly most GA or executive, where the correct SID and STARS handling from ATC does Play a biger role and ATC has to give more instructions. But because i´am "flying" only Commercial Jetliner Airbus A32x for Lufthansa and Eurowings it´s not so important. PF3 ATC tells me i. ex. "...continue your Approach via NOLGO23 for runway 23 at pilots descretion, contact Tower when established…" and that´s very close to what an airliner Crew is given in the real world. This is because all nessecary legdata are computed and controled by the FMGS and ATC knows and exspect this. from  Airliners and ATPL´s. And though i don´t Need more orders from ATC then the Name of the STAR or SID. 

P.S.

The like i´ve given to you Pete, is meant as spare for my obeisance to the master of the masters. I´am in FlightSimulation since 1992 and i´ am using FSUIPC since the very first days when Enrico came around with "Schiratti Commander". Allways impressed how you did all this and it´s likely compareable with the Invention of the Internet, you opened the MSFS and builded the "interface" to make all this possible what makes the SIM "as real as it gets" until today.

Very Kind Regards 

Bernd

Edited by BerndB
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, BerndB said:

RC4 where tested and explained and there was mentioned that the voice-synth. sounds more robotic compared to the pre-recorded Voices in PF3.

I suspect those opinions were formed after using default (free) Microsoft voices. There are some excellent quality voices (though not cheap, usually £20-35 each except in sales where they can be picked up half-price), and to my ears sound much much better than stitched together pre-recorded voices.

25 minutes ago, BerndB said:

I agree if you fly most GA or executive, where the correct SID and STARS handling from ATC does Play a biger role and ATC has to give more instructions.

No, not so. ATC does not have to give more instructions.  You are expected to follow the SID and STAR with no interference from ATC unless you go wrong or are asked to slow down or speed up for traffic. The point with both ProATC/X and Pilot2ATC is that the approrpiate SID and STAR is assigned by ATC. It may be one you would expect (and you can force that choice), but it may be different for reasons such as weather or, theoretically, traffic (though not implemented yet). Generally the STAR and Approach won't be assigned until near enough to destination, and normally you'd leave your FMC open at that end (though you could take a good guess, generally, getting the weather prediction for arrival).

I've never flown GA or Executive in my 737NG cockpit! And if i use my Piper Cherokee VFR setup I am certainly not interested in having any ATC at all. I fly low and slow.

Pete

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

The point with both ProATC/X and Pilot2ATC is that the approrpiate SID and STAR is assigned by ATC

Well then, yes, i agree this is and Advantage compared to PF3. 

43 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Generally the STAR and Approach won't be assigned until near enough to destination, and normally you'd leave your FMC open at that end (though you could take a good guess, generally, getting the weather prediction for arrival).

Yes, i have to agree again. And that´s exactly how i´am handling this usually. At least i have the Advantage that i flying most within Germany or Europe. And the SID and STARS are less complex compared to USA or Canada. Though i´am usually using only the Name of the Start-intersection of a STAR in PF3 which is most likely connected to the direction from where you come into the area (north, east, south )rather then to a specific runway at most airports in Germany. On top of this, because of the short distances we have in Germany, in reallife the pilots know the destination runway already in 90 % of the cases before take-off from Departure or very shortly after take-off. Because of emissioncontrols and -restrictions most of the Airports aren´t vary the landingrunways so often and within a flighttime of just 40 minutes even from Munich to Hamburg, the conditions aren´t changing dramaticly at Destination. 

But anyway, the thread was started with the Question to the ones who use PF3 and because i´am using it, i felt to give an answer. In telling my experience with PF3. But i will take a Closer look onto Pilot2Atc in the future. But then i have to talk to ATC all the time because my MCE CoPi can´t take this over because of missing interface between both. And thats also non-realistic as well. Usually the PM talks to ATC and the PF handles the Aircraft. My MCE uses the TTS-Voices from Cereproc and yes, indeed, they Sound absolutely naturally.  

It could be, that Deltaair gets now more confused then before starting this thread...LOL 😁

Edited by BerndB

Share this post


Link to post

Hi guys thanks for all the advice, I got busy so I’m just now seeing all of these messages. What I take from the feedback is that it all boils down to user preference. Theres really no “best ATC program”, because they’re all good in their own ways. Now, why a dev won’t take the best of all five and make a super ATC program idk maybe technology isn’t that advanced yet 😂 but with all of this in mind I decided to go back to ProATC/X. I used it briefly as stated before but hated the step down phase of flight but I’ve decided to give it another go. The program has been updated since I last used it so I’m hoping it’ll be a better experience. Also, I am really curious to see if Microsoft has revamped the default ATC For their new sim. In the near future, ATC add-ons May be a thing of the past! Besides Microsoft already lays claim to the most human like voice recordings. So we will see. 

Share this post


Link to post

That PF3 uses country dependent voice sets is a big advantage and adds a lot to realism. Flying over Spain or Germany and hearing controllers with American or UK  accents like the others use,  has always been a no go for me 

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Pilot2ATC and VoxATC can handle all the airport and controller names.

pete

i'm trialling P2A at the moment ...... but i don't hear airport and artcc callsigns & just phonetics in the clearance (?)

vox though is 100% pronounced, no phonetics.

otherwise they are quite similar and capatible with mce's same TTS copilots ......though P2A has no AI comms (yet) and (hence) does not match (imho) the AI & runway control of Vox

Edited by vadriver

Share this post


Link to post

Those are all very well for people who have their own rooms for Simming but for those of us who have other family members watching TV around the corner (i.e. Open plan), RC4 is an obvious choice, just buttons to press and an auto Co- pilot to do the radios.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, GSalden said:

That PF3 uses country dependent voice sets is a big advantage and adds a lot to realism. Flying over Spain or Germany and hearing controllers with American or UK  accents like the others use,  has always been a no go for me 

Yes. Choosing controller voices according to the region you are in is on Dave's list for P2A. But meanwhile, in a batch deal from one of the voice suppliers (on Harpo), I got a selection of other accents to try.

However, I had great difficulty understanding them uness I slowed them down so much it sounded like they were going to sleep.

I think understanding Controllers comes with experience, which is probably what I'm lacking. I think real pilots come to know what they expect to hear, and therefore understand even rich accents. So ... one day I'll re-enable the ones I've currently disabled.

Pete

P.S. Altering spoken voice speed is something easy with synthesised voices. Not so, of course, with pre-recorded ones,

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

I think understanding Controllers comes with experience,

'tis easy if it is pronounced ...... ie not phonetics.

my only occasional need for phonetics was with "expat" controlllers .... so why do you all want programs that use phonetics (PATC, P2A though can't comment on RC & PF3)

frankly, i find it easy & simple to understand robitic pronunciations than "phonetic" ... & don't ask me about "paired" flight numbers. do you really know if it is you if five six nine is called or five sixty nine (many a drama without paired in the real)

Edited by vadriver

Share this post


Link to post

Imho we need :

VOX Proflight Contact 4

That will handle it all 😇

Edited by GSalden
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, vadriver said:

'tis easy if it is pronounced ...... ie not phonetics.

Well I find phonetics, when used, ok. Most of the instructions are words in English.

51 minutes ago, vadriver said:

so why do you all want programs that use phonetics

Phonetics are appropriate for SIDs, STARs, and Waypoints. It's only centre names and airports which should be spoken normally, as I think they are with Synthesised voices. It's the pre-recorded voice systems which have problems covering all of these simply because you need so many recorded. (Then, of course, "stitched" onto the wave file being played -- the disjointedness which puts me right off pre-recorded voices).

Pete

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

because you need so many recorded

all those airports, procedures and artcc's .................. mourard would be busy, then add paired flight numbers, you would need many hard disks more so if you needed "sufficient" regional voices.

but i do hope P2A can include those of the above missing + AI comms soon ..... should answer most of gerard's call.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now