4 hours ago, vortex681 said:

You'd have to hope that Phil Spencer has done his research, but I think his statement is very (very!) optimistic, at best. You only need to look at Steam's hardware stats (probably the largest, publicly available gamer database: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam) to realise that even 4k may not be mainstream in 2 year's time - less than 2% of gamers were using it in the survey and that number has hardly changed in the last year or two. The vast majority use 1920x1080 or less. Most gamers just don't have the hardware to run games at 4k and, unless prices drop dramatically, are not likely to be able to afford it in the foreseeable future. 

The difference is between PC gamers and console gamers. You don't need a huge monitor sitting on your desk to play a PC game; you're close to the screen. So 1080p works fine for many PC gamers and that's reflected in the Steam stats.

Console players are different, because a common setup is sitting on the couch in the living room with a large flat panel TV, much further away. That's where 4k comes in; it's noticeably sharper than 1080p when the screen is large enough, and home "TVs" are getting enormous at affordable prices these days. The new Xbox Scarlett (and upcoming Playstation) are targeting 4k resolution to support couch gaming on big TV screens.
 

Quote

Even if Phil Spencer was talking about consoles, I'd be very surprised if 8k TVs were widespread enough in 2 years to be considered mainstream. 

Consoles have a long life cycle, like 7 years between XBox One and the upcoming Scarlett, so it's not unreasonable to mention 8k when it may be more common towards the end of the Scarlett console run somewhere around 2027.

Probably not at ultra high frame rates though. I mentioned in another thread here that a new Microsoft promo video for Xbox Scarlett cuts between two talking heads, one saying "up to 120 frames per second" and then cut to another talking head saying "8k resolution." They're very careful not to link those two statements together. I haven't seen any direct quote from MS claiming 120 fps at 8k resolution. Some outside gamng and tech-focused web sites are being sloppy about that.

Just now, Paraffin said:

 

 

I was wondering who would ever need a 8K screen for gaming ? 4K, I can understand, larger screens need better resolution. I will someday go for it. 

 But 8K? I didn't think of couch gaming 😃 ! 

24 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

The difference is between PC gamers and console gamers. You don't need a huge monitor sitting on your desk to play a PC game; you're close to the screen. So 1080p works fine for many PC gamers and that's reflected in the Steam stats.

Console players are different, because a common setup is sitting on the couch in the living room with a large flat panel TV, much further away. That's where 4k comes in; it's noticeably sharper than 1080p when the screen is large enough, and home "TVs" are getting enormous at affordable prices these days. The new Xbox Scarlett (and upcoming Playstation) are targeting 4k resolution to support couch gaming on big TV screens.

How far away do console players usually sit from the TV? At least in my case, my TV covers a smaller part of my field of vision compared to my PC monitor, despite being about 1/9 its size. As such I feel that 4K is much more important to PC gaming. Since the death of MSAA, playing at 1080p feels miserable to me.

8K gaming is just PR nonsense from both Sony and Microsoft. If anything you'll find 2D indie games and Video Streaming supporting 8K. Both companies had to do hardware refreshes this gen to reach 4K and even then the games often run with checkerboard rendering or variable resolutions. Next gen consoles will make 4K the standard. 

Edited September 19, 20196 yr by Krakin

3 hours ago, ca_metal said:

would'nt be surprised if we had a new Nvidia driver launch when MSFS2020 is released, with custom profile for it.

NVidia game ready drivers and Nvidia Gforce experience have already all the required functionality for such purposes. 

S.

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

Consoles have a long life cycle, like 7 years between XBox One and the upcoming Scarlett, so it's not unreasonable to mention 8k when it may be more common towards the end of the Scarlett console run somewhere around 2027.

Not entirely accurate. Between the Xbox One (2013) and Scarlett, Microsoft released the Xbox One X (2017). The Xbox One X is the version that came to run games on 4k. 

That said, I would expect a revised version of Scarlett a few years after its release.

3 minutes ago, simbol said:

NVidia game ready drivers and Nvidia Gforce experience have already all the required functionality for such purposes. 

S.

Not true, Nvidia can do wonders when they release a driver specific for a game (more like an updated profile for the game). They do for every AAA game released and you can see the difference in performance.

48 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

How far away do console players usually sit from the TV? At least in my case, my TV covers a smaller part of my field of vision compared to my PC monitor, despite being about 1/9 its size. As such I feel that 4K is much more important to PC gaming. Since the death of MSAA, playing at 1080p feels miserable to me.

Everyone's setup will be different. I've seen photos of console couch gaming setups that have typical living room TV watching distance with a ginormous screen replacing what we all used to have in the CRT TV days.

To extrapolate from my own setup: I have a 24" 1920x1200 monitor on my desk that I use for flight sims and games. To recreate the same angle of view on a living room TV, at a comfortable couch-gaming distance of something like 15 feet, the display would have to be 6 feet wide.

That's still pretty big for flat screen TV's, but it's the direction things are going. In fact, the "TV" we use for watching movies in the home bedroom is a DLP projector with a motorized drop-down screen that's 6 feet wide. Maybe that's where I'll end up flying MSFS if I get a console to run it. 😄

7 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

Not true, Nvidia can do wonders when they release a driver specific for a game (more like an updated profile for the game). They do for every AAA game released and you can see the difference in performance.

Nvidia already has all these facilities in place.. they do it for other products, So all MS has to do is ask Nvidia to push the required profile.. nothing is required to be re-invented. that was my point.

I don't understand why you say my post is not true, NVidia game ready drivers have been around for a long time..

S.

 

54 minutes ago, simbol said:

Nvidia already has all these facilities in place.. they do it for other products, So all MS has to do is ask Nvidia to push the required profile.. nothing is required to be re-invented. that was my point.

 I don't understand why you say my post is not true, NVidia game ready drivers have been around for a long time..

S.

 

I'm talking about releasing a driver with a custom profile for the game, in that case, the MSFS2020. Which usually improve performance and fix bugs/glitches.

I know you can create a custom profile using the Nvidia Inspector, but I'm talking about Official fixes in a WHQL Nvidia Driver.

Well, If you think the end-user creating a profile in the Nvidia Inspector would be the same as Nvidia and Microsoft working together to release a driver with a built-in profile, no problem. For me, I've always seen performance gains when Nvidia releases their Game Ready Drivers for the specific game I want to play.

41 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

I'm talking about releasing a driver with a custom profile for the game, in that case, the MSFS2020. Which usually improve performance and fix bugs/glitches.

I know you can create a custom profile using the Nvidia Inspector, but I'm talking about Official fixes in a WHQL Nvidia Driver.

Well, If you think the end-user creating a profile in the Nvidia Inspector would be the same as Nvidia and Microsoft working together to release a driver with a built-in profile, no problem. For me, I've always seen performance gains when Nvidia releases their Game Ready Drivers for the specific game I want to play.

I am not talking about nvidia inspector.

Please Google Nvidia game ready drivers and you will understand what I am talking about, it is exactly what you are describing.

The technology been used already for long time and used constantly by all big game developers brands, EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, etc.

Regards 

S.

2 minutes ago, simbol said:

I am not talking about nvidia inspector.

Please Google Nvidia game ready drivers and you will understand what I am talking about, it is exactly what you are describing.

The technology been used already for long time and used constantly by all big game developers brands, EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, etc.

Regards 

S.

So we are talking the same thing. What I was pointing out is, Nvidia doesn't have custom profiles for P3D V4 nor X-plane 11, they don't care about those simulators, I think the last simulator they created a profile was for FSX. Which will change with Microsoft getting back to the game and probably implementing the RTX stuff on the new sim.

That said, I would expect a Game Ready Driver for the MSFS release. That's all.

8 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

That said, I would expect a Game Ready Driver for the MSFS release. That's all.

I think that's likely as it's going to be distributed as an AAA title. Flight Simulator X had the NVIDIA logo on its marketing and it was one of their showcase games for their GeForce 8 series back in 2006. NVIDIA also had an optimisation tips & tricks article on an older website (I think it was called nZone) with recommended settings for specific GPUs.

3 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Consoles have a long life cycle, like 7 years between XBox One and the upcoming Scarlett, so it's not unreasonable to mention 8k when it may be more common towards the end of the Scarlett console run somewhere around 2027.

I think you missed the points of my post. The first point was concerning the quote that 8k would be mainstream in 2 years and I said that I thought that's highly unlikely for PC gaming. The second (concerning consoles) was that I couldn't see 8k TVs becoming mainstream in 2 years either. The third point was that even if they did, I couldn't see how the new XBox would manage 8k gaming using "Zen 2 and Navi architecture"

I have no doubt that 8k (or something similar) will eventually become mainstream, just not in the next 2 years.

Edited September 19, 20196 yr by vortex681

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

8K is the inevitable march of technology that will be mainstream (in the US) within the next 2 years

The US must be almost a unique market if this is true. In most countries 4k is only just becoming mainstream and there are very few live 4k broadcasts here in the UK where most TV is still predominantly Full HD. I think that mainstream 8k for PC gamers is still many years away from becoming a practical reality. For consoles, even if they were capable of streaming 8k games, for most people the bandwidth required would just not be practical for the foreseeable future.

As a comment from your earlier post, I'm well aware that you can run 1920x1080 games on a 4k or 8k TV but that doesn't make it 4k or 8k gaming (which, in the case of 4k,  still constitutes a tiny minority of PC gaming in other genres).

Edited September 19, 20196 yr by vortex681