4 hours ago, shivers9 said:

...there is no reason to believe that this release is going to be new from the ground up. 

That is one of the very first things MS posted. It is a new sim. I seriously doubt that backwards compatibility will be supported.

How can you complain about something you don't even have?  Seriously?

Honestly, I don't think this topic was raised, because someone wanted to suppress any opinion or observation of stutters in preview videos. Criticism is always more than welcome, if it is warranted and if one is sure that the criticism (stutters in this case) is actually caused by the new sim, and not - as we have already witnessed - caused by their own system!

Stuttering is such an elusive and difficult problem to solve, since it's hard to know where it's coming from. Stuttering can have a gazillion different sources of error and just because some people (actually a few - which in itself should be a sign) in here say the videos are stuttering, doesn't mean, that the new sim will! 

I really have a hard time grasping these complaints of stuttering. Please think of the following:

• The sim is currently in Pre-alpha-stage of development. This is NOT the final product!
• Stuttering is not necessarily caused by the sim. It's more likely to be an issue of the end-user's setup.

Edited September 16, 20196 yr by Anders Bermann

No, this sim is in pre-alpha.  It's not even a product yet... just a project.

16 minutes ago, WarpD said:

No, this sim is in pre-alpha.  It's not even a product yet... just a project.

Thanks, Ed. Corrected! 🙂

 

3 hours ago, WarpD said:

How can you complain about something you don't even have?  Seriously?

Precisely.

Since the beginning of this forums I’ve seen hopes, speculations, predictions, some a little argumentative, some more composed, based on what MS had showed us. Only complaints are about non existent complaints. No product, no complaint. You said it.

On the other hand, most of the threads, even the argumentative one, have sparked a trove of interesting facts about programming, MR, photogrammetry,  aerial imagery, RT, and so on and so forth. 

 

8 hours ago, DavidP said:

It's threads like this that make me wish MS had kept this all quiet until just before release.

Making the not so bold assumption that MS knows what third party forums are all about, one also can make the not so bold assumption that they’d prefer a little noise than quietness. 

What is the actual proof that flight sims are a paradigm away from “3D shooters”? In the old days I suppose it was the importance of the cpu, but recently quite a lot of new shooters/ action adventure type games are very demanding on CPUs so I’m not sure that’s true anymore. Who could look at the output of a cpu and gpu and determine what sort of game it’s running? 

Instinctively it feels like more flight sims are special therefore we accept shocking relative performance, but delighted to be corrected.   

 

1 hour ago, Superdelphinus said:

Who could look at the output of a cpu and gpu and determine what sort of game it’s running?

I saw Red Dead Redemption running on an XBox on a TV and thought it was a movie.  For several minutes.  Then a menu appeared.  "Jeez!  That's a *video game*!"

You aren't going to mistake stock FSX or P3D for a movie, but I've seen screen shots with custom content that I thought at first were photographs of the real thing.  I've seen photos of the real thing that I thought were screen shots from a customized flight sim.

The new sim may well end up looking like a movie.  I don't give a rat's hiney about an occasional stutter; I get those occasionally watching YouTube or Amazon movies.  (Note:  Amazon spontaneously refunded my last movie rental because of poor performance.  I wasn't even gonna ask them to.  Second time this has happened.)

I still get an occasional stutter in P3Dv4 in certain high density areas due to my settings being high, and I'd prefer that to having my settings lowered for the rest of my flights.  If stutters cause you to get hives, turn your settings down.  Yes, I notice stutters.  No, I don't care about them.

Any bets that if the published videos had ANY kind of stutter that Microsoft would edit them out?  Or not publish that video?  If I saw any kind of stutter in one of their promo videos, I'd blame the delivery mechanism or my playback system, not Microsoft.

Hook

Edited September 16, 20196 yr by LHookins

13 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

• The sim is currently in Pre-alpha-stage of development. This is NOT the final product!
• Stuttering is not necessarily caused by the sim. It's more likely to be an issue of the end-user's setup.

.) With this rationale, no criticism/observations could be made about anything at all. Taking notice of stutters is as legit as taking notice that a runway color looks wrong, or that he water is similar to FSX, or anything else. We all know that the product is pre-alpha, giving observations or praise or criticism is the reason MS publishes the previews and reads these forums.

.) After converting the video to a lower resolution and seeing the stutter at the same point, one can be reasonably sure that the culprit is not the end user setup.

End point is, if you don't care about stutters good for you (it's a very subjective thing), but letting MS know that some of us notice and care about them is as legit as anything else.

I will just take notice that the latest videos are captured at 60 fps and are very smooth with no stutters, contrary to previous ones. If that is by chance, or maybe someone at MS took notice of observations made here, I don't know, but I'm glad of that. The smooth and stutter-less spin video is very promising!

 

Edited September 16, 20196 yr by Murmur

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

I saw Red Dead Redemption running on an XBox on a TV and thought it was a movie.  For several minutes.  Then a menu appeared.  "Jeez!  That's a *video game*!"

You aren't going to mistake stock FSX or P3D for a movie, but I've seen screen shots with custom content that I thought at first were photographs of the real thing.  I've seen photos of the real thing that I thought were screen shots from a customized flight sim.

The new sim may well end up looking like a movie.  I don't give a rat's hiney about an occasional stutter; I get those occasionally watching YouTube or Amazon movies.  (Note:  Amazon spontaneously refunded my last movie rental because of poor performance.  I wasn't even gonna ask them to.  Second time this has happened.)

I still get an occasional stutter in P3Dv4 in certain high density areas due to my settings being high, and I'd prefer that to having my settings lowered for the rest of my flights.  If stutters cause you to get hives, turn your settings down.  Yes, I notice stutters.  No, I don't care about them.

Any bets that if the published videos had ANY kind of stutter that Microsoft would edit them out?  Or not publish that video?  If I saw any kind of stutter in one of their promo videos, I'd blame the delivery mechanism or my playback system, not Microsoft.

Hook

Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant who could look at the performance monitor output on windows and determine what sort of game is running! Well aware that many games look unbelievably good these days. 

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

As far as stutters, they don't bother me so long as there aren't too many and it becomes distracting, but for some just one stutter drives them nuts ... to each his or her own.  The stutters I saw in the MFS videos is NOT a deal breaker for me.

Stutters in the final release of MSFS even with reduced settings, would be a deal-breaker for me, and for one simple reason: I don't see them in the sim I'm flying now.

Haven't seen a stutter in the frame rate since I upgraded to my current system with a nice RAM cushion. This just isn't a problem we hear about very often in the XP sub-forum here, or in the .org forums. It's usually a case of someone using too extreme settings, having low-end hardware, or a plugin conflict.

I don't see stutters in the AAA games I play either. 

When you get used to something, it's very difficult to take a step backwards.

15 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

The more I see these types of comments the more I'm convinced Microsoft needs to provide NO graphic settings options and just run their own benchmark and configure graphics quality based on how well the end user's hardware scores (encrypt and hide all configuration files).  You get what your hardware can deliver nothing more and nothing less.

That would be a major deal breaker for me.  Besides, FSX/P3D already do this except that they give you the option to change things after it sets its suggested default.  I'd prefer to choose where performance suffers.  I'd prefer to trade frame rate for autogen detail, for example

Even worse would be setting the graphics dynamically.  If you think terrain popping in is bad now, wait until you see it pop back out.  It's bad enough on my P3Dv4 system that the most complex autogen buildings will disappear and reappear occasionally.

What you're suggesting might work in a shooter, but may be the worst possible option for a flight sim.  Not everyone will agree.

 

16 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

As far as stutters, they don't bother me so long as there aren't too many and it becomes distracting, but for some just one stutter drives them nuts ... to each his or her own.

When I first installed P3Dv4 I set the graphics very high.  Near high definition cities with large airports I was getting some bad stutters.  I think the only concession I made to getting rid of stutters was dropping LOD_Radius by one notch.

Hook

5 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Stutters in the final release of MSFS even with reduced settings, would be a deal-breaker for me, and for one simple reason: I don't see them in the sim I'm flying now.

Haven't seen a stutter in the frame rate since I upgraded to my current system with a nice RAM cushion. This just isn't a problem we hear about very often in the XP sub-forum here, or in the .org forums. It's usually a case of someone using too extreme settings, having low-end hardware, or a plugin conflict.

You'll be happier sticking with XPlane.  By the time you reduce the "extreme settings" in the new sim it'll probably look about like XPlane does now on your system.  No need to give up all the things you already have just to have a new sim to fly.

Hook

5 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I'd prefer to choose where performance suffers.  I'd prefer to trade frame rate for autogen detail, for example

Even worse would be setting the graphics dynamically.  

 

My thoughts entirely !