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What I've noticed? There are two types of simmers

1. The study level button pushers to simulate commercial flight

2. The ones that want to be nauseous and "feel" flight . Lol (I'm raising my hand)

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56 minutes ago, irrics said:

Side question:  What's "RW"?

Usually means "Real World", e.g., as in "Joe is a RW pilot".

Al

Edited by ark

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11 minutes ago, ark said:

Usually means "Real World", e.g., as in "Joe is a RW pilot".

Al

Thx

 

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18 hours ago, Casualcas said:

What I've noticed? There are two types of simmers

1. The study level button pushers to simulate commercial flight

2. The ones that want to be nauseous and "feel" flight . Lol (I'm raising my hand)

That's a really narrow view of the flight sim community. There are so many other things you could have put in that list - it looks as though you don't really understand this hobby at all! I've been flight simming for many years and don't fit into either of those categories. Why would anyone want to feel nauseous doing something which is supposed to be enjoyable? Also, VR can't possibly make you feel flight, it can only possibly make it look more immersive.

Edited by vortex681
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Why do people like rollercoasters,  or jumping off cliffs on a rubberband? 

That's an really narrow view of site! lol

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If there was full on haptik feed back for the controls, buttons and knobs then I would definitely give VR a go for my sim. I don't think it would replace my home build because I like the freedom of sitting in a "real" cockpit versus having a helmet on and connected to all the wires and interacting through a virtual cockpit. It would be reminiscent of TrackIR. During IFR flight legs I sometimes get up and make a sandwich, make phone calls, feed the fish, watch youtube vids etc...case in point...I am doing an ILS approach right now (26 DME to next leg)  as I am typing this post. All that would be too much trouble with all the gear on.

It would be fun try it flying around VFR in a cub or spitfire or something...that would be cool. 

Edited by Flybynumbers

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On 10/8/2019 at 5:51 PM, Casualcas said:

What I've noticed? There are two types of simmers

1. The study level button pushers to simulate commercial flight

2. The ones that want to be nauseous and "feel" flight . Lol (I'm raising my hand)

you can do both as seen in one of my old Youtube  Videos 😁

I like the real Hardware Haptic in combination with VR at least with GA, but VR is so much more,

when i get a new Plane i usualy end up just sitting inside the Cockpit for a looooong time and just looking around

and enjoying the almost realistic "feel" to really sit inside a cockpit. I also like to "walk" around the Planes

because in VR you see the Planes in real scale something not possible without VR.

What i dont get is the nauseous feel, i can do all the aerobatics for hours 🙃 🚑


100% VR flyer - Valve Index & RTX 2080 ti

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17 minutes ago, Nedo68 said:

you can do both as seen in one of my old Youtube  Videos 😁

I like the real Hardware Haptic in combination with VR at least with GA, but VR is so much more,

when i get a new Plane i usualy end up just sitting inside the Cockpit for a looooong time and just looking around

and enjoying the almost realistic "feel" to really sit inside a cockpit. I also like to "walk" around the Planes

because in VR you see the Planes in real scale something not possible without VR.

What i dont get is the nauseous feel, i can do all the aerobatics for hours 🙃 🚑

Yeah, and saying to yourself, hmmm this is smaller than I thought..... then stand up, open the door to the front galley to get a coffee. And I feel motion,  I've caught myself leaning in my chair in a turn.  

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On 10/5/2019 at 3:51 PM, ark said:

I posted similar to the below in the VR poll thread but the thread was shut down before there was time for anyone to respond.

I have never used VR and know essentially nothing about it. Most of my flying is IFR and all the recent VR 'discussion' has triggered some questions for me:

1. I use a 2nd monitor to hold various IFR charts and a moving map so I can quickly move back and forth between the VC and the charts ( I currently use TrackIR ) -- how is that handled in VR?

2. I have written many Lua scripts that, through FSUIPC, let me do things like bring up checklists, enter courses, altitudes and headings very conveniently using the keyboard numpad, reposition the a/c, and generally enhance the flying experience by reducing the need to find mouse click spots when bouncing around under IFR conditions, etc . These scripts are triggered by keyboard keys and buttons on various controllers. How would I find the keys and buttons when using VR?

3. Does the mouse work the same with VR as with a monitor to operate 'buttons' in the VC, e.g., to operate a Garmin GTN750 GPS, etc ?

Thx,

Al

Edit: Thetford569, Nickhod,

Thanks for the helpful inputs below,  gives me a little better feel for the VR operational environment. My sense is the less dependent one is on external hardware, the better the VR experience would be. Perhaps it has been done, but it would be interesting to have a study level a/c developed from the 'ground up' with VR operation as a design goal. [Responding here because could not respond below for some reason]

Al

I had all the same concerns. IFR is easier in VR...both setting up and flying.   The solution to the kneeboard is a virtual kneeboard. Flyinside lets you pin windows and drag them around in the cockpit which is cool. You can change location, aircraft, settings, time etc without ever leaving vr or your flight.

You can create flight plans that will set everything up automatically, or you can set everything up (while in VR) or not before your flight. I do everything in VR because I find turning the knobs with my virtual hands easier than the mouse.

As far as ILS frequencies, I used to get all that information from the garmin gps..so give me a plane with the garmin gps and that's all I need. It would be cool to have approach plates in a popup window...pilots use ipads now not paper charts so it's even better. Checklists would be the same...just pop up a window. It's all doable. There is no reason you should ever need your keyboard or need to read off a piece of paper when flying VR or in the real world these days.

Edited by Flybynumbers

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2 minutes ago, Flybynumbers said:

I had all the same concerns. IFR is easier in VR...both setting up and flying. You can use the mouse but I just twist the knobs and push the buttons with my virtual hands. The solution to the kneeboard is a virtual kneeboard. Flyinside lets you pin windows and drag them around in the cockpit. All we need is one for airports and ils freqencies etc. Checklists would be the same...just pop up a window. It's all doable. There is no reason you should ever need your keyboard when flying VR.

After reading many many posts on this, my sense is VR is too constraining for me when flying IFR. I like to look at the map and other info on my tablet, write down information like clearances, find and pick up a hot cup of coffee, and I do have need to use the keyboard for special programs I have written that enhance the simulation experience for me.

I also hated wearing a 'hood' during RW IFR training years ago.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Thanks for the reply,

Al

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37 minutes ago, ark said:

After reading many many posts on this, my sense is VR is too constraining for me when flying IFR. I like to look at the map and other info on my tablet, write down information like clearances, find and pick up a hot cup of coffee, and I do have need to use the keyboard for special programs I have written that enhance the simulation experience for me.

I also hated wearing a 'hood' during RW IFR training years ago.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Thanks for the reply,

Al

Ya I used to like to get up and watch tv during long legs of IFR...I can still do it by just taking off the headset, but I hear ya. My suggestion is to try it...you might find a new fondness for flying VFR in VR...something I rarely did with my homebuild.

Edited by Flybynumbers

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1 minute ago, Flybynumbers said:

Ya I used to like to get up and watch tv during long legs of IFR...I can still do it by just taking off the headset, but I hear ya. My suggestion is to try it...you might find a new fondness for flying VFR in VR...something I rarely did with my homebuild.

Yes, I can see how low level VFR sightseeing might be fun with VR.

Al

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On 10/7/2019 at 5:54 AM, David Mills said:

The first and only thing you need to know about flying IFR with VR is that the instruments are unreadable. And I do mean that the instruments are quite literally unreadable from the normal pilot's perspective in the cockpit. Now, if you touch your forehead against the instrument panel from one inch away, then (and only then) can you occasionally discern what the readout might be. So the idea of using VR to view highly detailed IFR charts is truly a joke. You're vastly overestimating the current resolution of VR. Plus, using the mouse in VR within the current P3D is also pretty much impossible. Perhaps the instruments will respond to the mouse on the eight or tenth attempted click.

That’s absolutely false - 2015 called, and they want their headset back! 🙂
 

I have hundreds of hours of sim VR time flying IFR, it is quite easy read instruments with modern headset. Sometimes you lean in a little, but that’s barely necessary with the current gen devices. I sometimes do it when looking at the fine print on the NGXu ND, that’s about it.

What you wrote was true in the DK1/2 days, that was years ago.

You need a modern headset, some supersampling and correct settings.

What HMD and plane are you flying with that you’re having such trouble seeing?? What is your supersampling set at? And how many VR hours do you have (the brain adjusts after you’ve flown for bit).

Cheers!


Rob

Sim rig: i9900K @ 5GHz, 1080 Ti. Flying X-plane, P3D v4.5 and Aerofly FS2 in VR.

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground. 

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@nickhod You mentioned that there are methods for pinning windows into a VR view in SteamVR and Occulus VR?

Do those work in games running the WMVR for Steam?

Can you pin multiple windows at different locations? 

What sort of performance hit to they incur? 

I've got some crazy ideas for VR flight sim stuff, but I'm thinking they'd require about three separate 2D windows to be open able in the cockpit space, and able to be positioned so they did not obstruct key things. And it would be good to be able to make at least one of them mostly transparent and oriented on one of the canopy panes. 

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On 10/7/2019 at 5:54 AM, David Mills said:

The first and only thing you need to know about flying IFR with VR is that the instruments are unreadable. And I do mean that the instruments are quite literally unreadable from the normal pilot's perspective in the cockpit. Now, if you touch your forehead against the instrument panel from one inch away, then (and only then) can you occasionally discern what the readout might be. So the idea of using VR to view highly detailed IFR charts is truly a joke. You're vastly overestimating the current resolution of VR. Plus, using the mouse in VR within the current P3D is also pretty much impossible. Perhaps the instruments will respond to the mouse on the eight or tenth attempted click.

What I'll sometimes do -- with my Oculus Rift -- is use VR to look out the window after I've already set up all the instruments using several monitors. But even here, the outside-the-window view in VR is very dull in color and focus. Current VR looks like videos on YouTube that show you what the world looks like to someone with advanced cataracts: blurry, dull in color saturation and brightness, and very frustrating. I do love the feeling that VR gives you of being immersed within the aircraft. But there needs to be a mega step forward in VR hardware and resolution before you can use a VR headset the way you're asking about: for IFR VR. Again, you're overestimating the resolution and usability of current VR hardware. This current problem with VR resolution is probably why Microsoft is subordinating VR to other, higher priorities within the sim. Even the finest software implementation of VR by Microsoft could not overcome the current, inherent hardware limitations of VR, which, to most newcomers, are very disappointing.

VR currently works well if you're looking at a large object that is very close to you, such as a dinosaur three feet from your face that is trying to eat you. But objects at a distance -- or small objects on a flight panel -- look very bad, if you can see them at all.

 

 

I have a Samsung odysey and it is no way as bad as described.  I have super sampling set to 150% in steam and it makes a massive difference compared to 100%.  (200 even looks better but the performance hit is too much)

Most instruments you don't need to lean it to see

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