I used to religiously download these every time they became available but it would appear that from now on, one will have to pay to obtain them...Somehow I knew this was going to happen one day but not during my lifetime, that's a bit of a downer... :-hang

the data used is no longer available for free. and besides, I have no problems paying for it. Richard has been great at releasing it for years. My only complaint now is a lack of sid/stars because many are now incompatable with the new navdata

Yes but that's only temporary from what I understand on his forum.Anyway, I looked at the Navigraph site in little more details and their application appears to be quite good.I wonder how much it comes down to per Airac. I guess everything has a price.

>I wonder how much it comes down to per Airac. I guess>everything has a price.It's 20 'credits' per month (regardless for how many add-ons you download)The value of these so called credits depends on you.If you buy for example 100 credits, a cycle will cost you 2 euro. Buy 300 credits and a cycle cost 1,35 euro.I can live with those cost.

Hi guys,Egberth is right, but please keep in mind that not-used credits will be lost after 270 days. So if you

Yes Martin, that is why I am not going to bother. 'Airacs' can work out very dear if that is all you want every month?If they change the system to 'credits in the bank' that last until you have used them, I am in favour of it but, no one can hope to survive while there is a monthly limit. That is tantumount to fraud IMO.

It seems that working out what exactly it will cost you for this service if you are only interested in airacs is sufficiently obscure that many simmers who have used the freeware service will simply give it a miss now and stick with the last freeware airac.Bruceb

"That is tantamount to fraud IMO."Just because you don't like the arrangements doesn't make it a fraud - which is generally regarded as criminal behaviour.

Under the current Navigraph pricing scheme, if you buy in batches of 100 navigazink credits and download every AIRAC (a new one every 28 days) you'll pay 2 eurogazinks for each cycle, for a total of 26 eurogazinks annually. You lose nothing with the navigazink credit expiration since you'll use up all of your 100 navigazinks every 140 days.If you buy in batches of 100 navigazinks and only download the AIRACS every other cycle (I note that the paper charts are produced every other cycle with an update for those few that have changed since the last cycle) you'll lose 20 navigazinks every 9 months and therefore average 2.50 eurogazinks each but for a lower total of 16.25 eurogazinks annually.Seems pretty reasonable to me, given how much I spend on other FS-related stuff. Especially once SID/STAR data becomes available.But, it would seem that the poison dwarves are already filing their gnarly little pointed teeth and preparing to do their best to chew off Navigraph's legs for offering a service to us that we once got for free and probably took for granted. If the Navigraph plan does not succeed, are we going to be willing to pay what Jeppesen charges for the data???RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V l-300Santiago de Chile

I certainly don't mind putting out some money for a well put together and oft used product such as navdata.My only complaint would be the credit expiry. Does anyone know if you can keep those expired credits by topping up your account? This sounds too much like what cell phone companies do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. Not being a poison dwarf, just posting a valid point.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

>This sounds too much like what cell phone companies>do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. I don't suppose you'll be giving up your cell phone, though. :)

If you use the 100 credit plan, you won't have any expire, because they have been extended to 9mo, assuming you update each month. This will cost you about US$3.80/mo. If you only update every 2nd month, then it will cost about US$2.10/mo, because some will expire. No airport charts though.If you go for the 300 credit plan, this will actually cost you only US$2.85/mo. You would get monthly updates, and 60 airport charts every 9mo period.* Orest

>If the Navigraph plan does not succeed, are we going to be>willing to pay what Jeppesen charges for the data???Bob:Now that just made me shiver. I was on the fence on the Navigraph plan; but the mention of Jeppesen prices drove home how cheap Navigraph will be.The one thing Navigraph should do, though, is outline a bit more of how their plan works on their webpages. Flightsimmers like detail. :)

There is a thread in the navdata forum about the new pricing arrangements and a statement by navigraph that they will clarify the credit expiry condition.Basically any credits remaining after 270 days *from the date of purchase* will be lost.The cost per credit depends on how much you pay into your account each time, as mentioned by another poster.

>>This sounds too much like what cell phone companies>>do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. >>I don't suppose you'll be giving up your cell phone, though.>:)No, but if I top my cell up before the expiry date, I keep the previous minutes I've already paid for and don't lose them.It doesn't sound like this is how navigraph does it though. According to their Terms Of Service:A Navigraph Credit expires 270 days after the date of its purchase. Credit balances that are not used within the said 270 day period will be lost.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com