Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
mgh

AIRACS no longer for free

Recommended Posts

Guest VAA_008

I used to religiously download these every time they became available but it would appear that from now on, one will have to pay to obtain them...Somehow I knew this was going to happen one day but not during my lifetime, that's a bit of a downer... :-hang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

the data used is no longer available for free. and besides, I have no problems paying for it. Richard has been great at releasing it for years. My only complaint now is a lack of sid/stars because many are now incompatable with the new navdata

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VAA_008

Yes but that's only temporary from what I understand on his forum.Anyway, I looked at the Navigraph site in little more details and their application appears to be quite good.I wonder how much it comes down to per Airac. I guess everything has a price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>I wonder how much it comes down to per Airac. I guess>everything has a price.It's 20 'credits' per month (regardless for how many add-ons you download)The value of these so called credits depends on you.If you buy for example 100 credits, a cycle will cost you 2 euro. Buy 300 credits and a cycle cost 1,35 euro.I can live with those cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Martin, that is why I am not going to bother. 'Airacs' can work out very dear if that is all you want every month?If they change the system to 'credits in the bank' that last until you have used them, I am in favour of it but, no one can hope to survive while there is a monthly limit. That is tantumount to fraud IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that working out what exactly it will cost you for this service if you are only interested in airacs is sufficiently obscure that many simmers who have used the freeware service will simply give it a miss now and stick with the last freeware airac.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That is tantamount to fraud IMO."Just because you don't like the arrangements doesn't make it a fraud - which is generally regarded as criminal behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under the current Navigraph pricing scheme, if you buy in batches of 100 navigazink credits and download every AIRAC (a new one every 28 days) you'll pay 2 eurogazinks for each cycle, for a total of 26 eurogazinks annually. You lose nothing with the navigazink credit expiration since you'll use up all of your 100 navigazinks every 140 days.If you buy in batches of 100 navigazinks and only download the AIRACS every other cycle (I note that the paper charts are produced every other cycle with an update for those few that have changed since the last cycle) you'll lose 20 navigazinks every 9 months and therefore average 2.50 eurogazinks each but for a lower total of 16.25 eurogazinks annually.Seems pretty reasonable to me, given how much I spend on other FS-related stuff. Especially once SID/STAR data becomes available.But, it would seem that the poison dwarves are already filing their gnarly little pointed teeth and preparing to do their best to chew off Navigraph's legs for offering a service to us that we once got for free and probably took for granted. If the Navigraph plan does not succeed, are we going to be willing to pay what Jeppesen charges for the data???RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V l-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly don't mind putting out some money for a well put together and oft used product such as navdata.My only complaint would be the credit expiry. Does anyone know if you can keep those expired credits by topping up your account? This sounds too much like what cell phone companies do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. Not being a poison dwarf, just posting a valid point.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JTEK99

>This sounds too much like what cell phone companies>do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. I don't suppose you'll be giving up your cell phone, though. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use the 100 credit plan, you won't have any expire, because they have been extended to 9mo, assuming you update each month. This will cost you about US$3.80/mo. If you only update every 2nd month, then it will cost about US$2.10/mo, because some will expire. No airport charts though.If you go for the 300 credit plan, this will actually cost you only US$2.85/mo. You would get monthly updates, and 60 airport charts every 9mo period.* Orest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JTEK99

>If the Navigraph plan does not succeed, are we going to be>willing to pay what Jeppesen charges for the data???Bob:Now that just made me shiver. I was on the fence on the Navigraph plan; but the mention of Jeppesen prices drove home how cheap Navigraph will be.The one thing Navigraph should do, though, is outline a bit more of how their plan works on their webpages. Flightsimmers like detail. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a thread in the navdata forum about the new pricing arrangements and a statement by navigraph that they will clarify the credit expiry condition.Basically any credits remaining after 270 days *from the date of purchase* will be lost.The cost per credit depends on how much you pay into your account each time, as mentioned by another poster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>This sounds too much like what cell phone companies>>do with their pay&talk plans..... use it or lose it. >>I don't suppose you'll be giving up your cell phone, though.>:)No, but if I top my cell up before the expiry date, I keep the previous minutes I've already paid for and don't lose them.It doesn't sound like this is how navigraph does it though. According to their Terms Of Service:A Navigraph Credit expires 270 days after the date of its purchase. Credit balances that are not used within the said 270 day period will be lost.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is it going to cost you then if, like me, you update your airac about every three months? And by the way this whole thing is a tad confusing and to label those who question the pricing arrangements as "poison dwarfs" as was done higher up the thread is over the top and offensive.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce,I'm not offended by being labelled a 'Poison Dwarf' by someone who, clearly dosen't know what he is talking about!let's hope he never meets a real one eh? :-)As most will agree, we are all entitled to our opinion.I only use the 'Airacs' once a month. I refuse to pay for credits that cannot be used, full stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>What is it going to cost you then if, like me, you update>your airac about every three months? >>BrucebUS$12.80 for nine months, or US$4.27 per update, one every three months.40 of your credits will expire, you could use these to grab 20 airports charts, rather than having them disappear.* Orest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,>I only use the 'Airacs' once a month. I refuse to pay for>credits that cannot be used, full stop.We can at least make sure we get the facts right as this is not a matter of opinions.If you only use the AIRACs and you will use it every month you will not lose your credits if you purchase 100 credits at a time. A 100 credits will give you 5 months of AIRACs for all add-ons and for unlimited downloads. The 100 credits will cost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>What is it going to cost you then if, like me, you update>>your airac about every three months? >>>>Bruceb>>US$12.80 for nine months, or US$4.27 per update, one every>three months.>>40 of your credits will expire, you could use these to grab 20>airports charts, rather than having them disappear.>>* Orest>Don'tcha think we'd be better off just using the data that comes with FSX? In a virtual world, airways don't really have to change - ditto STARs and SIDs. I can see problems when a new airport is built, but we can make adjustments with additional XML files. Since the purchase price for FSX includes all the nav data built into the game, why don't we just adjust our add-ons to use that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest allcott

>>>What is it going to cost you then if, like me, you update>>>your airac about every three months? >>>>>>Bruceb>>>>US$12.80 for nine months, or US$4.27 per update, one every>>three months.>>>>40 of your credits will expire, you could use these to grab>20>>airports charts, rather than having them disappear.>>>>* Orest>>>>Don'tcha think we'd be better off just using the data that>comes with FSX? In a virtual world, airways don't really have>to change - ditto STARs and SIDs. I can see problems when a>new airport is built, but we can make adjustments with>additional XML files. Since the purchase price for FSX>includes all the nav data built into the game, why don't we>just adjust our add-ons to use that?Good question, along with the question about whether this time, FSX allows the data to be updated in the sim? I would guess not, same as before, The data is a `snapshot`. The problem is that, you and your mates are flying online. NO-ONE knows what Airac data is in force, and presumably online relies on the default FSX data or else everyone has to sign up to the Navigraph data. It's certainly not poisonous to question what purpose this data serves, and whether it can be used with FSX. Doesn't seem like a question that's even been asked! Allcott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>What is it going to cost you then if, like me, you update>your airac about every three months? And by the way this>whole thing is a tad confusing and to label those who question>the pricing arrangements as "poison dwarfs" as was done>higher up the thread is over the top and offensive.>>BrucebSure it's OK to critique the pricing schema...but I consider it, to quote you here, "over the top and offensive" to see people calling it "fraud", or depicting the price structure as some sort of a gouge even though these guys are really asking a very small price for their product.Bottom line, if you only update your AIRAC every 3 months it's gonna cost you more per update than those who do it monthly. It's just a form of volume discount. Do you hunt down the grocery store manager every time the store posts a price of something like 0.39 each or 3 for $1...as most do every day???Whaddya say you guys climb down off that cross you're on, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it???Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest allcott

OK Bob, so does Simconnect accept the use of both revised and default navdata when accepting multiplayer logons?I ask because I don't know, but if the answer is no, then what value does navdata have, at any price? We fly in a sim-world environment, but if some of us start updating SIDS & STARS and navigation data, and others don't then the whole exercise is futile - or possibly fraudulent if it was done knowing that to be the case. If you're going to pay money for something - anything - then it irrevocably changes the relationship between customer and vendor and these kind of awkward questions should be answered, not pushed under a convenient rug. Allcott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ziporama

I'm just curious as to how the online ARTCCs at IVAO and VATSIM will handle it. The motto there has always been "as real as it gets", meaning, you better have the latest charts, so this is an interesting challenge if you have pilots with old charts and pilots with new charts.Regarding payment, I'd think a subscription service may be better than a credit scheme. That may better fit the need for FMS data.Another interest from a marketing perspective may be for each add-on vendor to start offering updates to their own FMS via a subscription.Amazing stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would Simconnect depend on what navdata is loaded into your FMS? Internally...i.e. with Simconnect...FS processes deal in absolute position...lat-long-altitude.This default-vs-current AIRAC navdata debate has been done more than enough times already, but in general in my VATSIM controlling I find most online ATC users have been using current procedures, especially in the US where current FAA terminal charts are available free from the NACO website.You can stick with default and accept that the charts available to you will soon diverge (at times significantly) from the default database, or you can use the current AIRAC and the charts from NACO. Current AIRAC navigation databases have been in use by thousands of simmers for years now. Suggesting the "whole exercise is futile" ignores that long historical usage. The only thing changing here is that we're no longer getting it for free. Those who want it can buy it, those who don't value it need not. Those who buy it without understanding what it does and doesn't do for them stand to learn a small lesson in consumerism.But, once again, use of an ugly term like "fraudulent" carries the legal significance of an intent to steal through deception, and use of that sort of vernacular just because one doesn't like the pricing plan offered by the vendor is at the very least irresponsible and possibly (probably) libelous too. My commentary about poison dwarves is specifically directed towards those that are already casting that sort of unjustified crap towards Navigraph because they don't like the credit system they have set up. I personally find the idea of a sim world without a connection to the real world airway structure an unhappy thought, and I am most thankful to Richard Stephan for putting this option into play rather than just throwing up his hands and quitting when free access to DAFIF data went away. In the end, I'm quite confident we will have a much more complete sim world available through Navigraph than the DAFIF database (or the default MSFS one for that matter) ever could have provided.Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...