Lanacion.com.ar interview with Neumann and Wloch

[Krakin 5,760]

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/tecnologia/hablan-creadores-del-flight-simulator-2020-nid2318927

Partial translation:

Quote

 

LN-It seems that we are going to need a lot of computing power. Or all these calculations are going to be done in the cloud?

Neumann-No, computers and consoles are extremely powerful today. In our performance analyzes, calculations for the entire climate system and the flight model are not going to need more than 5% of the capacity of a processor core, and today the processors have several cores. So it won't be a problem.

LN:-Now, the graphics. We will be able to see the real world.

Neumann: - That's right. We use Bing maps, so we have images of the entire planet, altitude data of the entire planet and detailed photogrammetry of certain areas, such as cities; so it will look exactly like the real world. LN:-OK, that data is in the cloud, so the simulator will stream the images. How much bandwidth are we going to need? Will there be the possibility of downloading specific areas that we fly often?

Wloch: -We have considered all the possibilities. If you have no connection at all, the simulator will generate the world, with trees, cities, mountains and others. Now, if you have an Internet connection, the simulator will balance the level of detail of the terrain according to the speed you have. It will have twenty different levels of realism, depending on the available bandwidth. It is like streaming video, which has more or less resolution according to the speed of the connection.

LN:-What would be the minimum bandwidth and what would be the ideal for a good experience?

Wloch- With 3 or 4 megabits per second (Mbps) you will already be able to have a good representation of the world. Among other techniques, we cache the data, so if you fly over an airport and then go over that place again, that data does not need to be downloaded again. For the same reason, the realism of the terrain will improve as you fly several times over the same place. But you don't need super fast connections anyway. With about 10 Mbps you can already have all the level of realism offered by the simulator.

Neumann: - And as you said, there is also the possibility of downloading a particular area in advance, if you fly there often, so you will not need a large bandwidth to have all the level of detail in that area.

LN:-How are they going to market it? Is it going to be a monthly fee, like Netflix, or will it have a single price?

Neumann:-We still don't have all the details, but what I can tell you now is that there will definitely be a way to buy the simulator like any other simulator before. But it will also become part of the Game Pass subscription plan for Xbox and PC, which gives access to 100 games for those platforms. So there will be two ways to get the FS2020. What is not going to be is a subscription plan only for the FS2020. 

LN:-If I want to have access to the maps and all the features, do I have to use the Game Pass model?

Neumann-Do not.

LN-What is the difference between the two marketing models?

Neumann:-The subscription is for those who want to have access to other games for Xbox or PC.

LN:- Suppose I just want the simulator. If I buy anything else than the FS2020, do I also have access to streaming maps and other features?

Neumann:-Exact.

LN:-How long did it take to create the FS2020? It seems something really great, although it is also true that it integrates a number of pre-existing technologies.

Wloch: -Three and a half years. So, considering that it will come out next year, it will be about four years.

LN:-And how many people worked to produce it?

Wloch:-A 150 people.

"And no, the data that all virtual pilots want to have was not yet established, they told me. That is, the release date of the FS2020. But they assure it will be next year, and Wloch somehow showed a clue. If they have been working for three and a half years and in the end they will be four years of development, then it takes about six months for it to be ready to take off. Just when the megaexposure of videogames E3 is celebrated."

 

Lots of good info in here. I thinks the best part of it was finally getting confirmation that MSFS won't have a mandatory subscription for streaming capabilities!

The translation was done by someone on FB so I welcome anyone to make corrections as necessary.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Krakin

[Scottoest 1,561]

The context of that line about subscriptions looks like he's referring to the game not only being available via a Game Pass subscription, something they've said before.

"So there will be two ways to get the FS2020. What is not going to be is a subscription plan only for the FS2020. "

[Krakin 5,760]

4 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

The context of that line about subscriptions looks like he's referring to the game not only being available via a Game Pass subscription, something they've said before.

"So there will be two ways to get the FS2020. What is not going to be is a subscription plan only for the FS2020. "

I don't remember them saying you can buy it outright before. Have a link to that? As for the context of what he's saying, he's saying MSFS won't have a sub that is just for it. That's pretty clear cut to me

[ca_metal 2,020]

I liked that part:

Quote

-Parece que vamos a necesitar un montón de poder de cómputo. ¿O todos esos cálculos se van a hacer en la nube?

-No, las computadoras y las consolas son hoy extremadamente potentes. En nuestros análisis de rendimiento, los cálculos para todo el sistema climático y el modelo de vuelo no van a necesitar más del 5% de la capacidad de un núcleo del procesador, y hoy los procesadores tienen varios núcleos. Así que no será un problema.

The simulator seems to be really optimized. 5% of one core is amazing for such huge tasks. 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

We don't know what goes into that 5% and what goes into the other 95% 😉
 

[ca_metal 2,020]

1 minute ago, Pastaiolo said:

We don't know what goes into that 5% and what goes into the other 95% 😉
 

Well, using only 5% of a core to calculate the whole wheater system and the flight model seems amazing to me. And based on what I've seen so far, both features look very complex (weather and flight model).

[Scottoest 1,561]

33 minutes ago, Krakin said:

I don't remember them saying you can buy it outright before. Have a link to that? As for the context of what he's saying, he's saying MSFS won't have a sub that is just for it. That's pretty clear cut to me

Not off the top of my head, but it's been the case for any Microsoft game they've put out on Game Pass, and I assumed it was always never in doubt.  Phil Spencer has repeatedly said over the past couple of years that Game Pass is about "choice", not about tying games exclusively to Game Pass - so you can either give them your $60 up front, or pay $5 a month for a PC Game Pass subscription that gives you access to MSFS and a bunch of other stuff..

[Krakin 5,760]

18 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

Not off the top of my head, but it's been the case for any Microsoft game they've put out on Game Pass, and I assumed it was always never in doubt.  Phil Spencer has repeatedly said over the past couple of years that Game Pass is about "choice", not about tying games exclusively to Game Pass - so you can either give them your $60 up front, or pay $5 a month for a PC Game Pass subscription that gives you access to MSFS and a bunch of other stuff..

Yes we've been saying that for a while now but some people weren't sure it would be the case because of the streaming factor. To my knowledge this is the first time they've confirmed it specifically for the new sim.

[Amon1973 1,421]

MS have definitely stated that the game could be purchased outright, but I cannot remember where they said it (possibly at XO19), I think they have stated this on more than one occasion. 

[Scottoest 1,561]

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

Yes we've been saying that for a while now but some people weren't sure it would be the case because of the streaming factor. To my knowledge this is the first time they've confirmed it specifically for the new sim.

However, it should be noted that being able to buy the game outright, doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't include an "in-game" subscription option for the live server access.  This just means you'll be able to buy the base product, or get it via Game Pass.

I still suspect any sort of supplemental subscription is unlikely, that said.

[Bottle 663]

1 hour ago, ca_metal said:

Well, using only 5% of a core to calculate the whole wheater system and the flight model seems amazing to me. And based on what I've seen so far, both features look very complex (weather and flight model).

Old versions of the game were incremental "improvements" on a base code and that code started a long time ago. Legacy code tends to suffer from accretion that makes it inefficient; bandages on top of bandages. So with a fresh start, who knows what coding efficiencies they may have fully realised? Not to mention improvements in machine code and basic algorithm design. In addition, I would suspect that the fresh start ethos has meant they haven't shackled themselves to old CPU architecture (however, I've not seen this asked or officially commented on to date). So again, leveraging modern CPU technology may give yet more performance improvements. So although 5% sounds amazing, it's not that incredible. Flight sims after all are just a huge collection of floating point calculations; the types of things modern computers do very well. What is surprising to me in his statement is that he said "CPU" (or else the journalist misinterpreted what he said). In a past interview, it was stated that the whole weather system and water are handled by the GPU. If the latter is the case, then the 5% is even more believable since GPUs are particularly specialised processors and after all, the atmosphere, flight dynamics, etc. is "just" a set of vectors. There's a reason why the Phys-X engine works off of the GPU.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

11 minutes ago, Bottle said:

There's a reason why the Phys-X engine works off of the GPU.

Actually there are very few games utilising GPU acceleration or PhysX effects nowadays, let alone the PhysX engine. Now thanks to low-level APIs and more cores/threads, it is preferable to place physics calculations on the CPU to free up the GPU for other tasks. Microsoft Flight Simulator is looking to be more GPU-limited.

The earlier games with GPU PhysX effects are not indicative of how well CPUs can calculate those effects. Due to marketing reasons, AGEIA/NVIDIA limited them to extremely old x87 instructions and on a single thread to make the GPU seem a lot more fit for that task. Once this was exposed and NVIDIA were forced to optimise the effects, the CPU could calculate the physics almost as well as the GPU. Nowadays most game engines use their own physics engines anyway, and the calculations are mostly done on the CPU.

[Bottle 663]

25 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Actually there are very few games utilising GPU acceleration or PhysX effects nowadays....

Many thanks for the update @ChaoticBeauty It's MSFS that's brought me back to the computer so I'm a little rusty in my knowledge. Always good to learn.

[Krakin 5,760]

2 hours ago, Scottoest said:

However, it should be noted that being able to buy the game outright, doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't include an "in-game" subscription option for the live server access.  This just means you'll be able to buy the base product, or get it via Game Pass.

I still suspect any sort of supplemental subscription is unlikely, that said.

The guy outright said they'd be no subscription just for the new sim. I think that's pretty clear cut. 

[Scottoest 1,561]

7 minutes ago, Krakin said:

The guy outright said they'd be no subscription just for the new sim. I think that's pretty clear cut. 

And now we are circling back to what I originally said, haha:

"But it will also become part of the Game Pass subscription plan for Xbox and PC, which gives access to 100 games for those platforms. So there will be two ways to get the FS2020. What is not going to be is a subscription plan only for the FS2020. "

Since this is obviously a grammatically clumsy translation, it's wise to look at the fuller context of the answer.  And looking at the context of the sentences preceding the bolded final one, he's appears to just be indicating you won't HAVE to get the product via a Game Pass subscription.  He even adds the word "only", which makes no sense if what he's saying is that there will be no form of subscription in the game at all.

It makes far more sense to assume he means you won't ONLY be able to get the sim via Game Pass.  But much like Game Pass games can have in-game DLC and microtransactions, they could also have a subscription option for certain tiers of access.

Do I think it will?  No.  But that's different than confirmation that it won't.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Scottoest