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mcdonoughdr

P3Dv5 Excessive vRam usage

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4 hours ago, simbol said:

LM said it is working on a fix to address this issue.. How many times I have to keep repeating it..

S.

I just wonder, in your honest opinion, to what extent can LM truly 'fix' these issues? It sounds more and more like the scenery developers have to optimize their sceneries in ways that they might have not really needed to do before, such as the use of 1024 textures where possible. I'm guessing that FlightBeam has been doing exactly that, hence virtually all their sceneries run incredibly well for pretty much anybody. What do you think?


Benjamin van Soldt

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I agree, LM can probably cause the sim to do something other than crash when the vram limit is hit, but what is that something?  Stutters, black textures?

I think addon developers will need to look at texture optimization to truly fix this.

I’ve flown through flightbeam’s MSP and FSDT’s ORD without getting near the vram limit.  Fly Tampa YYZ was a challenge.

Edited by regis9

Dave

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4 hours ago, SolRayz said:

Performance wise, P3D has never run smoother on my system and it's really astonishing. 

 

What's astonishing to me is that there are still people who haven't had totally smooth performance in v3.4 forward.  Have you never enjoyed stutter-free, fluid video performance in v4.x?  I do, and also did w/ v3.4 on a 3930K/GTX Titan 6gb for 4 straight years, and now w/ the new build it's just a bunch more eye candy but the identical fluid video performance.  Thus far v5 appears to offer little to nothing over a properly tuned and fully enhanced v4.5.  It appears for many/most people they will be hamstrung one way or another:  either find a 16gb+ VRAM GPU for $1200+, or dial back sliders below v4.5 levels of scenery and lighting lest you run out of VRAM, so what the heck is the benefit of that if you already have stellar performance in v4.5?  I can definitely appreciate porting rendering over to the GPU but it's coming at a time when high VRAM levels cost a lot of $$ to get you into the ball park for running this such that its really showing the benefits of this over v4.5.

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Noel

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1 hour ago, Noel said:

.Thus far v5 appears to offer little to nothing over a properly tuned and fully enhanced v4.5

This is a ridiculous statement, and I've been slagging on V5 pretty hard. There's a huge performance bump going from V4 to V5. It has significant issues right now, but it's definitely going in the right direction. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

This is a ridiculous statement, and I've been slagging on V5 pretty hard. There's a huge performance bump going from V4 to V5. It has significant issues right now, but it's definitely going in the right direction. 

Apples and apples eh?  I'm close to maxed out on both Scenery and Lighting sliders in v4.5, ASN4, flying out of KDEN-HD in ORBX CRM, and see a CPU load of about 84% and GPU using SSAAx4 at about 76%, and have totally smooth performance in the NGXu.   With the 'huge performance bump' can you say the same, only 'hugely better'?  That to me would mean you're able to run every slider fully maxed out in the same scenario.   I haven't read one comment here that can answer that in the affirmative yet.  It appears few people CAN run it maxed out because they 'only' have an 11Gb GPU to play with.   I agree, porting to the GPU is going in the right direction like I said.  But TODAY, I'm not hearing anything that takes it to practical reality, mainly conjecture about what it will be, or could be with a massive GPU.


Noel

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Ok, several additional tests done: with my current settings, only difference to what I have in v4.5 is the "enhanced atmospherics" on and autogen draw distance on high instead of medium, using LVFR Miami is a no go, it fills the 9.2gb of VRAM pretty word not allowed fast and then good bye P3D. In v4.5, this airport works like a charm, so I really look forward to this promised fix, as for now, some airports seem to be unusable to me and no, I am not going to reduce settings below what was possible in v4.5 just because LM did not do their homework...


Greetings, Chris

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6 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Ok, several additional tests done: with my current settings, only difference to what I have in v4.5 is the "enhanced atmospherics" on and autogen draw distance on high instead of medium, using LVFR Miami is a no go, it fills the 9.2gb of VRAM pretty word not allowed fast and then good bye P3D. In v4.5, this airport works like a charm, so I really look forward to this promised fix, as for now, some airports seem to be unusable to me and no, I am not going to reduce settings below what was possible in v4.5 just because LM did not do their homework...

I rest my case.  All of the magic behind 'huge performance bump' one could easily see came in part from all that access to fast VRAM.  So their 'fix' is going to retain the full benefit of offloading to the GPU, while choking off access to VRAM?  Presumably it's a case of making their code maximally efficient, but even so I can imagine 'huge' being downgraded at some level.  Welcome back to the privilege of paying yet again to support LM's latest alpha release.  

Edited by Noel

Noel

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45 minutes ago, Noel said:

I rest my case.  All of the magic behind 'huge performance bump' one could easily see came in part from all that access to fast VRAM.  So their 'fix' is going to retain the full benefit of offloading to the GPU, while choking off access to VRAM?  Presumably it's a case of making their code maximally efficient, but even so I can imagine 'huge' being downgraded at some level.  Welcome back to the privilege of paying yet again to support LM's latest alpha release.  

If that’s the case, that will be a bummer as I have a 2080ti with no issues etc. so those with good gpu will be punished and those that don’t have them will be back to normal. Sounds like a fair tradeoff. It sucks cause 20gb vram gpu are coming hopefully in august which would help the issues even more.


Mark Roberts 

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1 minute ago, akabam said:

If that’s the case, that will be a bummer as I have a 2080ti with no issues etc. so those with good gpu will be punished and those that don’t have them will be back to normal. Sounds like a fair tradeoff. It sucks cause 20gb vram gpu are coming hopefully in august which would help the issues even more.

He's just speculating. No one knows how LM will improve the VRAM situation. No one knows if they can improve it. He's just some dude with a $600 CPU who thinks LM is wasting their time trying to provide software improvements for people who can't spend $3,000 on their computer hardware.

Here's a friendly tip for anyone who feels like posting in this thread: Literally no one cares if you have a perfect set up in 4.5. 

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2 minutes ago, akabam said:

If that’s the case, that will be a bummer as I have a 2080ti with no issues etc. so those with good gpu will be punished and those that don’t have them will be back to normal. Sounds like a fair tradeoff. It sucks cause 20gb vram gpu are coming hopefully in august which would help the issues even more.

I was going to hold off on a new GPU when I assembled my new PC 5 weeks ago, but the old GPU (6.5y/o GTX Titan 6Gb) which I took out of the old build so I could at least get P3D 4.5 up and running, was just not a good match for what the new platform could do.  So I just bought an RTX 2070 Super which is a lot of GPU for the $$ and it's a very decent fit for P3D v4.5.  I plan to pick up 3080Ti 20Gb (some conjecture) when it's released and sell the 2070 Super then.  By then we might also know what MSFS brings and what it needs to be happy.  If that's marginal then I can reconsider P3D v5.


Noel

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2 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

He's just some dude with a $600 CPU who thinks LM is wasting their time trying to provide software improvements for people who can't spend $3,000 on their computer hardware.

Can you see the irony is this statement?  Just think about what is being sought after now for v5:  a big fat GPU and those cost lots of $$.


Noel

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2 minutes ago, Noel said:

Can you see the irony is this statement?  Just think about what is being sought after now for v5:  a big fat GPU and those cost lots of $$.

There's no irony there. You can achieve better performance with the same hardware on this beta, rushed-out-the-door version of V5 than you can on V4 after 3 years of updates. 

 

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3 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

I just wonder, in your honest opinion, to what extent can LM truly 'fix' these issues? It sounds more and more like the scenery developers have to optimize their sceneries in ways that they might have not really needed to do before, such as the use of 1024 textures where possible. I'm guessing that FlightBeam has been doing exactly that, hence virtually all their sceneries run incredibly well for pretty much anybody. What do you think?

Doing the same thing all DX12 games do, adapt at runtime to avoid a CTD.

What people is failing to understand is under P3D 4.5 (DX11) their P3D graphic settings were already too high for their current GPU and as a result their were starving their VRAM already and the GPU had to use normal system RAM. At this stage they will experience big stutters and performance drops.

DX12 does not allows to share normal RAM with VRAM. 

If you are experiencing VRAM starvation, you are most likely using 4K with high settings and antialiasing settings under and unlimited frames under V5 or a GPU below recommend settings (too low VRAM). In other words you are pushing your system beyond its limits.

Do not use the same settings as V4 or special settings copied from Rob Ainscough (he has a Titanx with 24GB of VRAM).

LM will address the CTD for sure, but it will come with a price.. (Performance or details settings dropping dynamically until more VRAM resources are available)

So you will need eventually to tweak your settings for a smooth experience.

And DX11 will be deprecated eventually, so DX12 is the future.

Regards,

Simbol 

 

Edited by simbol
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1 hour ago, Noel said:

Apples and apples eh?  I'm close to maxed out on both Scenery and Lighting sliders in v4.5, ASN4, flying out of KDEN-HD in ORBX CRM, and see a CPU load of about 84% and GPU using SSAAx4 at about 76%, and have totally smooth performance in the NGXu.   With the 'huge performance bump' can you say the same, only 'hugely better'?  That to me would mean you're able to run every slider fully maxed out in the same scenario.   I haven't read one comment here that can answer that in the affirmative yet.  It appears few people CAN run it maxed out because they 'only' have an 11Gb GPU to play with.   I agree, porting to the GPU is going in the right direction like I said.  But TODAY, I'm not hearing anything that takes it to practical reality, mainly conjecture about what it will be, or could be with a massive GPU.

1 hour ago, AnkH said:

Ok, several additional tests done: with my current settings, only difference to what I have in v4.5 is the "enhanced atmospherics" on and autogen draw distance on high instead of medium, using LVFR Miami is a no go, it fills the 9.2gb of VRAM pretty word not allowed fast and then good bye P3D. In v4.5, this airport works like a charm, so I really look forward to this promised fix, as for now, some airports seem to be unusable to me and no, I am not going to reduce settings below what was possible in v4.5 just because LM did not do their homework...

Not arguing one way or the other, but I've been working on settings and posted some results for LVFR KMIA in this thread:

My results are the last post on page 1 and first post on page 2.

Identical settings in both tests, setting screens are shown. 4K, 8GB VRAM.

In v4.5: ORBX Base, NA LC, ASP4, ASCA, ENVTEX, LVFR KMIA v5. FSW Lear35, RXP GTN750

In v5: ORBX Base, NA LC, FSXWX, LVFR KMIA v5. FSW Lear35, RXP GTN750, Enhanced Atmospherics @ Medium

They both use the same amount of VRAM, the only difference is that in v5/DX12 partitioning of VRAM from the rest of the OS.

Edited by cwburnett

Chris Burnett

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Yeah, thanks for this, but come on, adjusting settings for one airport? Thanks, but no. There is nothing so phenomenal regarding LVFR KMIA that explains this monstrous VRAM usage, especially not if I can run EHAM from FT with TE Netherlands active and the result is 2gb less VRAM usage there... so it is rather LVFR who has to do their homework 😉

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Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Sapphire RX 6900 XT SE, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 5.3, MSFS

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