Somewhere in another thread I saw a mention of flying under the Golden Gate Bridge.  I was reminded of an episode back during the Viet Nam war. I had a really good friend (I'll call him John) who was flying A4A's off the Kitty Hawk. The ship was stationed in Alameda, California, then. Whenever the ship was returning to port the aircraft would fly to NAS Alameda (now closed) . Coming back from his second tour in 'Nam John decided he needed a "victory lap". And what could be better than flying under the Golden Gate Bridge. In fact, he liked it so much he circled back and did it again.....inverted. Needless to say the squadron CO was less than pleased. His next fitness report was so bad that he decided to give up the Navy and go fly for TWA. Even the fact that John's father was an Admiral couldn't undo that fateful day. I've flown under that bridge many times in the sim and I always think of John...........Doug

Edited June 15, 20205 yr by W2DR

I would have loved to see that.  I have flown under the bridge in various sims in various aircraft a number of times.  Having grown up in San Francisco and the North Bay area I have walked across the bridge several times and driven across it a couple of hundred times.

The A-4 is a pretty tiny aircraft as jet fighters go.  It should have been an easy task given it's about 200 feet from the deck to the water.

Noel

43 minutes ago, W2DR said:

... His next fitness report was so bad that he decided to give up the Navy and go fly for TWA....

So, forgive me if this wasn't the case, the way I read that is that John was more than capable of piloting an A-4 well, but the Navy didn't or couldn't fire (court-martial?) him for being a naughty boy?

What a fabulous thread. Reminds of that story of that Boeing 707 chief test pilot who barrel-rolled a prototype 707 and got a severe.........rocket up.......

What a loss to the US Navy, eh, from a 'doctored' medical( forgive the pun) to a TWA pilot.

Fantastic story.

Ah things you could get away with in the old days , or at least do ,even if you didn’t necessarily get away with it.  

I think it may have been myself that mentioned in the other thread that we once used flying under the GG bridge as a manual flying exercise in the full motion 747-400 simulator. The scenery graphics weren’t fantastic in those says , on a par with FS95 i’d Say, but you always had a smooth frame rate.

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

The A-4 is a pretty tiny aircraft as jet fighters go.  It should have been an easy task given it's about 200 feet from the deck to the water.

Tell me about it. Later on when the squadron had moved to NAS Lemore I had a chance to get into the cockpit of an A4. I'm 6 ft tall and weigh 190lbs (even back then) and there is no way I could fly that thing. John had to push me in and pull me out. (He was 5'8'' and weighed 150 lbs. Typical fighter jock).......Doug

Edited June 15, 20205 yr by W2DR

3 hours ago, HighBypass said:

So, forgive me if this wasn't the case, the way I read that is that John was more than capable of piloting an A-4 well, but the Navy didn't or couldn't fire (court-martial?) him for being a naughty boy?

When your daddy is an Admiral there is no way that could happen. John was an interesting guy. A degree in aeronautical engineering (University of Hawaii...daddy was a Captain then stationed at Pearl), a master diver, drove a very fast race car for a couple years, and held a karati brown belt. He turned down an appointment to Annapolis because he didn't want to leave the islands. Good looking and had to fight off the women. I always thought of him as a man's man. He's passed away now. Cancer finally took it's toll. But I'll always remember him and the times we had together. One time in particular. He invited me to squadron party at his house. And then he  introduced me as an Air Force F-104 pilot. Nobody talked to me the rest of the night. R.I.P John...............Doug

Edited June 15, 20205 yr by W2DR
kant spel

3 hours ago, HighBypass said:

So, forgive me if this wasn't the case, the way I read that is that John was more than capable of piloting an A-4 well, but the Navy didn't or couldn't fire (court-martial?) him for being a naughty boy?

Probably because the US forces and indeed the US Government, were not keen to air their laundry in public during the Vietnam War, although this was more the case later in the war when support for the action was being opposed more overtly in the US. This is particularly the case for the USS Kitty Hawk, as detailed below, where bad publicity would be studiously avoided, so it's my guess that any officer whom they wanted rid of for a discipline-related incident, would be offered an assignment they'd hate in order to encourage them to bail quietly.

The Kitty Hawk did more than one tour of the SE theatre at Yankee Station, including during the Tet Offensive where she and her crew served well, receiving a Presidential Unit Citation in fact, however as the Vietnam War progressed, discipline and support for the conflict was proving problematic back home in the US for politicians and this was starting to spill over into discipline issues with the forces too. Amid a groundswell of opposition toward continuing rules of racial segregation in the US, Martin Luther King Jr had been assassinated in 1968 and Cassius Clay (aka Muhammed Aki) had refused to answer his call up for service, famously stating in 1966: 'I ain't got nothing against no Viet Cong; no Viet Cong never called me n***er.'

At first Clay was absolutely panned by the media in the US for being 'unpatriotic', and it cost his career dearly for three years, but by '69 there was a good deal of sympathy for his protestations when it became clear just how likely a black US infantry soldier was to get combat duty when compared to a white recruit. By the early seventies, the US were actively trying their best to get out of a war which was suicide to politicians back home.

It was in this climate that the USS Kitty Hawk was en route to Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin for another tour of Duty in the Vietnam conflict in 1972, when a race riot broke out on board the carrier. There were hundreds of sailors involved in this pitch battle and many were seriously injured. The incident resulted in a Congressional Enquiry concerning the lack of discipline in the forces and specifically the Navy although it was understood that the problem was widespread throughout all branches of the military owing to a complete lack of support for the war, which in turn had led to a lack of commitment to actually try to win it militarily, which most of the forces involved viewed as being told to fight with one hand tied behind their back. So it was hardly surprising that any incident involving a lack of discipline among the airmen would be a subject which would be hushed up as much as it could be, and especially on a carrier which had gained a reputation in the media for disciplinary issues.

Edited June 15, 20205 yr by Chock

That reminds of a couple of incidents during the Vietnam war when I supervised arming F-105s at Takhli in Thailand.

Every evening I would go to base ops and pick up the 'frag', the fragmentation order for the F-105 loads for the next morning's missions.  One afternoon I walked in when a Jolly Green landed.  Out came one of our pilots who had been picked up after he was shot down over the north.  He walked into base ops, took his 'go to hell' hat from inside his flight suit, asked the sergeant behind the counter for a marker, and put his first mission hash mark on his hat.  Then he said, "Thank God I only have 99 more to go."  He'd been shot down on his first mission.

Contrast that to an incident a couple of months earlier.  After flying his first Thud Mission to the north a major grounded himself.  He was given a desk job and you know he was RIFFed out when he got back to the States.

Noel

 

Ironically, there can be occasions where you not only get pardoned for doing that kind of thing, but actually end up getting praised, and get free beer as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident

7 hours ago, W2DR said:

When your daddy is an Admiral there is no way that could happen. John was an interesting guy. A degree in aeronautical engineering (University of Hawaii...daddy was a Captain then stationed at Pearl), a master diver, drove a very fast race car for a couple years, and held a karati brown belt. He turned down an appointment to Annapolis because he didn't want to leave the islands. Good looking and had to fight off the women. I always thought of him as a man's man. He's passed away now. Cancer finally took it's toll. But I'll always remember him and the times we had together. One time in particular. He invited me to squadron party at his house. And then he  introduced me as an Air Force F-104 pilot. Nobody talked to me the rest of the night. R.I.P John...............Doug

What a lovely anecdote about him. A real Boys Own hero. R.I.P. John

If you visit the Concorde simulator at Brooklands, Surrey,, England one of the options is departing Heathrow, flying back over the city of London, descending and flying through Tower Bridge. It's wide enough - just.

It was one of the two options I chose back in April 2016 when I and Pete Dowson treated ourselves to the package that includes lunch with former Concorde pilots. Highly recommended!

7 hours ago, birdguy said:

That reminds of a couple of incidents during the Vietnam war when I supervised arming F-105s at Takhli in Thailand.

Every evening I would go to base ops and pick up the 'frag', the fragmentation order for the F-105 loads for the next morning's missions.  One afternoon I walked in when a Jolly Green landed.  Out came one of our pilots who had been picked up after he was shot down over the north.  He walked into base ops, took his 'go to hell' hat from inside his flight suit, asked the sergeant behind the counter for a marker, and put his first mission hash mark on his hat.  Then he said, "Thank God I only have 99 more to go."  He'd been shot down on his first mission.

Contrast that to an incident a couple of months earlier.  After flying his first Thud Mission to the north a major grounded himself.  He was given a desk job and you know he was RIFFed out when he got back to the States.

Noel

 

There were a lot of Major's back in those days that should have still been 2nd Lt's. Thank God for the RIF procedures. Else some of these guys may have done even more damage.....

Unfortunately stunts like these have a tragic ending sometimes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998)

17 hours ago, birdguy said:

I would have loved to see that.  I have flown under the bridge in various sims in various aircraft a number of times.  Having grown up in San Francisco and the North Bay area I have walked across the bridge several times and driven across it a couple of hundred times.

The A-4 is a pretty tiny aircraft as jet fighters go.  It should have been an easy task given it's about 200 feet from the deck to the water.

Noel

You being a San Francisco guy I just have to share this with you. Back a lot of years ago we met a couple while on vacation in Mexico. Henry and Betty Ann Preen. We hung out together a bit. Henry taught us how to snorkle and it was an all around good time. The Preen's lived in San Francisco and we were just across the bay In Lafayette. They suggested we get together at their home for a dinner after our return and they would serve up a Mexican dinner. When we accepted we had no idea what we were in for.

They called us a couple of weeks later, we set a date, got their address and on the appointed evening off we went. We knew they were some where in the area of Nob Hill but it took us a bit to find them. And WOW! "The Place" turned out to be a tall apartment building. Their apartment was on the top floor. The entire top floor - all 7,000 sq. ft. of it. Turns out Henry owned the building (and a lot of others).  He came from a very old S.F family and they had been involved in real estate there for over 100 years.

"The Place" was simply magnificent 12' ceilings and  an entire glass floor-to-ceiling exterior wall overlooking the marina, the Golden Gate, Angel Island, and Tiburion. But to the point of this whole thing...my wife and I stood there looking out in wonderment. Henry came to us and asked how we liked the view. When we relied how much we liked it,he simply said......."I liked it lot better before they built that word not allowed bridge"...........Doug

 

Edited June 16, 20205 yr by W2DR