I don't know if this is a good thing. Vatsim is very much a hardcore niche environment that demands a high level of knowledge and dedication. You can't just connect and muddle through by learning as you go, like you can with any other multiplayer game.

MSFS2020 is a consumer product, 99% of whose users want to fly around the virtual world without worrying about voice procedure and airspace boundaries and classes while gawping at the scenery and winding up their mates on multiplayer with mock dog fights, tower flybys and collisions.

There's nothing wrong with either of these worlds - but they don't co exist easily in the same space.

I can see a lot of angst as casually interested people connect to VATSIM to see what it's about, upset everyone because they have no idea about the massive pre study required to function there, get intimidated/annoyed/confused and disconnect forever.

I can also see a lot of the kids doing air traffic control having meltdowns and walking away under an onslaught of newbies. Most VATSIM area sector airspace is already far too large for the traffic levels they try to handle and the children whose goal is to ensure there's never more than 5 seconds of quiet radio time in their sectors simply won't cope.

2 hours ago, lambourne said:

I don't know if this is a good thing. Vatsim is very much a hardcore niche environment that demands a high level of knowledge and dedication. You can't just connect and muddle through by learning as you go, like you can with any other multiplayer game.

MSFS2020 is a consumer product, 99% of whose users want to fly around the virtual world without worrying about voice procedure and airspace boundaries and classes while gawping at the scenery and winding up their mates on multiplayer with mock dog fights, tower flybys and collisions.

There's nothing wrong with either of these worlds - but they don't co exist easily in the same space.

I can see a lot of angst as casually interested people connect to VATSIM to see what it's about, upset everyone because they have no idea about the massive pre study required to function there, get intimidated/annoyed/confused and disconnect forever.

I can also see a lot of the kids doing air traffic control having meltdowns and walking away under an onslaught of newbies. Most VATSIM area sector airspace is already far too large for the traffic levels they try to handle and the children whose goal is to ensure there's never more than 5 seconds of quiet radio time in their sectors simply won't cope.

Actually you can. When I first got on vatsim I had no experience. What I did was go to a busy airport sat at a gate and listened to what was going on. 

2 hours ago, lambourne said:

I don't know if this is a good thing. Vatsim is very much a hardcore niche environment that demands a high level of knowledge and dedication. You can't just connect and muddle through by learning as you go, like you can with any other multiplayer game.

MSFS2020 is a consumer product, 99% of whose users want to fly around the virtual world without worrying about voice procedure and airspace boundaries and classes while gawping at the scenery and winding up their mates on multiplayer with mock dog fights, tower flybys and collisions.

There's nothing wrong with either of these worlds - but they don't co exist easily in the same space.

I can see a lot of angst as casually interested people connect to VATSIM to see what it's about, upset everyone because they have no idea about the massive pre study required to function there, get intimidated/annoyed/confused and disconnect forever.

I can also see a lot of the kids doing air traffic control having meltdowns and walking away under an onslaught of newbies. Most VATSIM area sector airspace is already far too large for the traffic levels they try to handle and the children whose goal is to ensure there's never more than 5 seconds of quiet radio time in their sectors simply won't cope.

Your argument is the same rhetoric I've listened to for the last 18 years.  I'm sorry but in the VATSIM world I have known (the USA from Seattle to Key West), I expect not a single difference in MSFS2020's VATSIM  from FS9, FSX, P3D v2,3,4,& 5).  I have flown on VATSIM in each of these simulators and I have enjoyed thousands of hours with fellow pilots and controllers !  

I'm not sure why you feel VATSIM is a "hardcore niche environment that demands a high level of knowledge and dedication" .  In 2001, with ZERO knowledge of flying anything I taught myself how to fly in FS2002 with the lessons from Rod Machado. My love of aviation pushed me further and soon I discovered VATSIM. After spending several weeks learning "aviation language" and the VATSIM rules posted on their website, I took my first "online" flight.  I instantly fell in love with the added realism and have never looked back. One's love of aviation will drive the needed desire to obtain this realism.  Who are we to suggest "Newbies stay away, this is only for the dedicated flyers" ? ? 

I respect your right to your opinion but I vehemently disagree with your projections for our future in VATSIM.  If you possibly only "fly" in the UK and/or Europe and experience your stated negative issues, you owe it to yourself to test the waters supported by VATUSA. and experience friendly and dedicated controllers.  BTW, I am NOT nor have I ever been a controller 🙂

Also I wish to point out, some of the BEST controllers I've experienced were kids ! 

Blue skies and tail winds,

Edited July 25, 20205 yr by vcarlo

One can begin in VATSIM flying only VFR with very little actual contact with the on-line controllers, such as asking for clearance through the Bravo airspace, or requesting flight following if available.

VATSIM adds to the flight simulator experience. You can use it to various degrees depending on which class of airspace you desire. It is a phenomenal learning tool in the sim that makes every pilot better (no matter the level of the pilot). As n4gix eluded too, it is a great experience for a VFR flight and requesting flight following. Once you get in the habit of listening, repeating and following controller instructions, it becomes second nature. Start gentle. Know your flight plan, know your aircraft, stay ahead of the aircraft in flight and ride the VATSIM learning curve slowly. 

7 minutes ago, Doering said:

Once you get in the habit of listening, repeating and following controller instructions, it becomes second nature.

My problem is that at my age, my short term memory is like swiss cheese, full of holes! Numbers especially give me problems.

With friends, I usually fly at least once a week in France with Vatsim in VFR. I'm not a pilot in real life. It's a great experience to be controlled in real life. 
So for me it is very good news that Vatsim is compatible with FS2020.

26 minutes ago, n4gix said:

My problem is that at my age, my short term memory is like swiss cheese, full of holes! Numbers especially give me problems.

You could write the instruction on a piece of paper. At long as I know that's even company procedure for some airliners. You would also have the opportunity to train your brain while flying. Just try it, no one will beat you, when you ask a second time for confirmation. I it's even better if you ask a second time, before you do stuff that wasn't requested.

Just start, I won't be able to fly offline anymore!

 

3 hours ago, n4gix said:

My problem is that at my age, my short term memory is like swiss cheese, full of holes! Numbers especially give me problems.

🤣😂, hence the pen and paper sitting next to your keyboard...it's a MUST for me !   Believe it or not, it's actually easier to file and fly IFR vs VFR.  When flying IFR, the controller is also responsible for watching you closely and keeping you on your flight plan headings and altitudes.  When flying VFR especially in controlled BRAVO or CHARLIE airspace, YOU are responsible for insuring YOU maintain all required altitudes. etc.  This can be very very hairy around larger metro areas/airports. You better know how to read a chart flying VFR !

Edited July 25, 20205 yr by vcarlo

On 7/25/2020 at 4:22 AM, lambourne said:

MSFS2020 is a consumer product, 99% of whose users want to fly around the virtual world without worrying about voice procedure and airspace boundaries and classes while gawping at the scenery and winding up their mates on multiplayer with mock dog fights, tower flybys and collisions.

I can see a lot of angst as casually interested people connect to VATSIM to see what it's about, upset everyone because they have no idea about the massive pre study required to function there, get intimidated/annoyed/confused and disconnect forever.

 

A recent announcement from the VATSIM Board of Governors should help provide you and others some relief regarding the concerns you have about VATSIM flying on MSFS 2020. Here is a quote taken from the VATSIM forums..

Quote

With this we are also pleased to announce a completely new rating we call “P0”, which is an all new automated training program that each new VATSIM member must complete prior to being able to sign into the network. This course is for new registrations only; existing VATSIM members will automatically be awarded the P0 rating. It will be hosted by the Pilot Rating Department and is designed to teach and ensure that members understand the very basics of how to be a good member of the VATSIM network before signing on. It will also direct those who want to learn more to pursue their VATSIM pilot ratings with Authorized Training Organizations and use other Pilot Training Department resources under the new upcoming VATSIM website and member portal.

VATSIM Authorized Training Organizations are already working hard to implement these new changes in their training programme, and the new system is planned to launch September 1st.

Mats Edvin Aarø
General Manager - Member Engagement

 

4 hours ago, vcarlo said:

A recent announcement from the VATSIM Board of Governors should help provide you and others some relief regarding the concerns you have about VATSIM flying on MSFS 2020. Here is a quote taken from the VATSIM forums...

That's really good, they've clearly thought about the potential impact of this and put up a trivial but hopefully effective barrier that gently introduces newcomers to the hardcore realism of VATSIM. Excellent work.

On 7/25/2020 at 11:22 AM, lambourne said:

[...]

MSFS2020 is a consumer product, 99% of whose users want to fly around the virtual world without worrying about voice procedure and airspace boundaries and classes while gawping at the scenery and winding up their mates on multiplayer with mock dog fights, tower flybys and collisions.

[...]

 

That's exactly what the MSFS multiplayer will be for and I'm sure 99% of all new pilots won't use VATSIM as their "just fly around and look that the scenery" environment.

The introduction of a P0 rating will ensure this. Clever move from VATSIM.

On 7/24/2020 at 8:39 AM, andrecarli737 said:

Can anyone help me to relate IVAO to VATSIM? Been a long time IVAO user, but didn't fly in VATSIM.

There is a lot more uses on Vatsim hence more available atc. Have a look at VatSpy and you will see all the real time atc's

I'm  a lazy flyer but will train myself to do the proper communication procedures if the ability is there.  More fun I think. 

Cheers

bs

On 7/23/2020 at 8:41 PM, DaWu said:

As someone who doesn’t like seeing 12 years olds doing barrel rolls with 747 over EDDF and having no atc coverage for 98% of the globe I must say: zzzzZzzzzz

A future update for Microsoft Flight Simulator will add a "land anywhere" feature that lets you do just that. Developer Jorg Neumann said one piece of feedback the team has seen since launch is that landing at a busy airport and the complexities involved with that--like communicating with the air traffic controllers--can be stressful and difficult. With that in mind, the team is working on a new feature that lets you land literally anywhere you want.
 

Better turn off multiplayer when the Xbox version releases!  Lmao!!!