1 hour ago, badderjet said:

As far as a simple graphic operation, I can't comment on that. Certainly it's been in all sims I have used in the past decades. But with all the praise the wx system has received and all its major advertising of how it can handle and simulate all kinds of situations, I hope you're not being serious. Yes I can expect that from the very start, just as I can expect a night and day cycle or planes with wings. This is not about helis or other specialities like replay, but rather about a super basic and most common meteorological phenomenon that needs to be adjustable in a precise manner for efficient IFR training. It's completely irrelevant if I can try it out for a buck or not. I could also read a review of the RTM/RTW to find out what's in and what's not, that won't help the issue either.

While i am absolutely with you on this one i refuse to believe that Fog/low visibility will not be simulated properly in a sim that depicts realistic rainbows, cloudshadows etc..

1 hour ago, badderjet said:

As far as a simple graphic operation, I can't comment on that. Certainly it's been in all sims I have used in the past decades. But with all the praise the wx system has received and all its major advertising of how it can handle and simulate all kinds of situations, I hope you're not being serious. Yes I can expect that from the very start, just as I can expect a night and day cycle or planes with wings. This is not about helis or other specialities like replay, but rather about a super basic and most common meteorological phenomenon that needs to be adjustable in a precise manner for efficient IFR training. It's completely irrelevant if I can try it out for a buck or not. I could also read a review of the RTM/RTW to find out what's in and what's not, that won't help the issue either.

I'm completely sure, that MSFS can simulate fog. We have saw some pictures from some valley from top view, where was fog on the ground. I think, that MSFS will simulate fog as the volumetric cloud, what will be much more realistic, than in previous sim. I really don't understand, why do you thinkink, that MSFS can't simulate so easy thing, like fog is :-).

I also would think that it can be simulated. We have seen a slider for "aerosol density" (iirc) which would probably determine the visibility inside a cloud. Now all you need to do is add a cloud that is right on the ground, pump up the aerosol density and voila...

On 8/1/2020 at 1:46 PM, ThomseN_inc said:

While i am absolutely with you on this one i refuse to believe that Fog/low visibility will not be simulated properly in a sim that depicts realistic rainbows, cloudshadows etc..

Haha I also refuse to believe that. 🤪 Yes, but I've seen people pump up the aerosols and that didn't exactly help, nor is it a way to set up the visibility in a precise way. Guess we'll have to wait and see what we get.

On 8/1/2020 at 5:50 PM, Janov said:

I also would think that it can be simulated. We have seen a slider for "aerosol density" (iirc) which would probably determine the visibility inside a cloud. Now all you need to do is add a cloud that is right on the ground, pump up the aerosol density and voila...

While basically it is right that fog is more or less a cloud on the ground i think that visually it definatly has to vary from being only that. At least it should be something like a stratus cloud but i cant remember seeing anything that is much different from a cumulus in different shapes and sizes. I still wonder how/if MSFS will depict all those different cloud types since there is so much more to weather than cumulus clouds.

Fog

BY CARL SANDBURG

The fog comes 

on little cat feet. 

 

It sits looking 

over harbor and city 

on silent haunches 

and then moves on.

Of course fog is simulated. I'm not sure how it's done (as I haven't tried the sim) but I don't know why you would think, that it isn't. Actually it's specifically mentioned in the Weather Discovery Video from Asobo, that fog (among other weather related features) is simulated. 

On 7/31/2020 at 8:14 AM, Janov said:

So can we have a clear statement here? Is it possible to set an RVR of say, 300 meters and have that accurately shown in the simulator?

Cheers, Jan

 

Yes!

Ahh, finally. One word that should make me happy for now. How simple could it be. Thanks.

 

I believe that's mostly the features covered in most other videos. I can't wait to see if the runway lights will actually contribute to RVR or not, as they never did in past versions. I haven't checked out all the different sims out there but I'd think that'd be a first in desktop flight simulation. These are the details that really would be killer functionality. At least the FFSs do this. If you don't know what I mean, check out e. g. the first photograph on the (English) Wikipedia article on RVR or any other picture of runways during LVO. The lights propagate through the fog to a point beyond any unlit ground detail is discernible, which is quite a reason for them to be there. They never, ever did this in any past MSFS. Apparently because it was super hard back then to model, as some Aces Studio dev confirmed back then. Now over a decade later. We'll see.

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by badderjet

Well, as an update to this topic I asked one of the live streamers to show the weather settings of the release version and unfortunately they did not change. Which means to me there will be no possibility to set up visibility and RVR in any effective way as it was advertised. While the sim in general is amazing, this is propably the biggest single disappointment. It's not that some autopilot function in some aircraft is not working as it should, or some building in some city missing. This is so deep at the core of the simulation and the weather engine that I really don't want to rely on 3PD for such incredibly basic functionality. One that would make this sim an effective tool for IFR training beyond all the eye-candy that we've already got. I surely hope this will be adressed in one of the future sim updates soon enough.

You're getting yourself all worked up.

- If you want a ceiling at a certain height, set the ceiling at that height.

- If you want fog, set a layer of overcast cloud at ground level. 

- If you desperately want a certain vis or RVR, spend 2 minutes adjusting the aerosol density until you've got the RVR you want, then make a note of them - that's your aerosol density to set for a given RVR. With standard spacing you want 8 lights for 125m RVR, and so on. 

I'm unsure what you mean by 'an effective IFR trainer.' Unless you've got someone sat behind you making changes to the RVR's and ceilings on the fly then it's pointless. If you need 550m for CAT 1 and you set yourself 500m, then you know you can't continue the approach. If you set 600m then you know that you can continue the approach.

Decisions at minima are only relevant if you don't already know the decision......

They might refine the settings in time but MS have obviously just taken a slightly different approach to weather generation. Your visibility is a result of other ambient conditions (as in real life) rather than setting a visibility which has to override all other weather choices.

Edit: And you call it incredibly basic, you are massively underestimating the complexity of accurate RVR creation/reporting.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by 2reds2whites

Thanks, I understand what you're saying about the creation of such conditions. Let me say that I have seen some people adjust the aerosols and they didn't exactly have a huge effect, but also I have yet to see someone play with them when there is a cloud layer on the ground as you say.

Yes, I "desperately" want a certain vis or RVR, just as it is possible to set in any FFS. That's why it's incredibly basic, not because it's technical background is. Aerodynamics and weather in general are also massively complex and they are both modelled in impressive depth. So I'm sorry to ask for such functionality in a sim that calls itself a flight sim. It's irrelevant if you know the decision due to the conditions before you reach the minima, there is a lot of IFR training being done where you know the exact conditions beforehand (and hence your decision, maybe). That's not the point. Setting these conditions up like you suggest might very well be a possible solution for Tuesday and after that, but is nothing more than a workaround. And no, among the incredible amount of footage popping up mainly dealing with the eye-candy I have not seen any video that shows proper LVO conditions at all. Not even for the fun of it.

Oh and while I'm no engineer I'm pretty sure I'm not underestimating the complexity at all, or any other part of their meteogological simulation. In fact even the FSX dev's posted an article about it back then and why it wasn't done properly and just in the way we know. Furthermore up to this day I'm not really sure if airport lighting systems will have an actual effect on RVR as they should. So far I can't really tell from the videos. I doubt it but I'll see next week.

Edit: Forgot to point out (once again...) that it was not me who advertised exactly these features ("precise ceilings and RVR"). So again, just pointing out lack of functionality that was more than clearly advertised as such. No one getting worked up here. Hope this helps.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by badderjet