FS2020 Physics - Nothing New?? FSX in disguise?

[Rmmm 17]

Quote

NOTE: The assertion made in this post is demonstrably false. The default aircraft in MSFS do not have or use the deprecated .air files. Full stop. This thread is therefor closed for further comments.

Asobo has touted new physics:

Aerodynamic Modeling – A state-of-the-art physics engine with over 1,000 control surfaces per plane allows for a truly realistic experience.

FSElite (Calum Martin) who just two weeks ago, had a private conference with the top managers of the MS/Asobo team replied to my concerns about stall behaviour on a recent video saying " That means nothing.  Trust me, it's there and it works well." 

However another Beta Tester responding to my concerns said FS2020 is still using the FSX flight model.  He then later added:  "Open the dr400 .air file, copy everything in the 747 .air file. The 747 will fly EXACTLY like the DR400. So where did the flight model based on the shape of the plane ? "

Physics matter to me immensely as I use my quite expensive simulator set up to support real world flight training.   Presently with X-Plane + REP, I can practice the full gamut of ACS maneuvers including stalls to keep fresh.   

What do others say?   What is missing here??

Edited August 16, 2020 by n4gix
ADDED NOTE TO TOP OF POST

[ca_metal 2,037]

8 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

Asobo has touted new physics:

Aerodynamic Modeling – A state-of-the-art physics engine with over 1,000 control surfaces per plane allows for a truly realistic experience.

FSElite (Calum Martin) who just two weeks ago, had a private conference with the top managers of the MS/Asobo team replied to my concerns about stall behaviour on a recent video saying " That means nothing.  Trust me, it's there and it works well." 

However another Beta Tester responding to my concerns said FS2020 is still using the FSX flight model.  He then later added:  "Open the dr400 .air file, copy everything in the 747 .air file. The 747 will fly EXACTLY like the DR400. So where did the flight model based on the shape of the plane ? "

Physics matter to me immensely as I use my quite expensive simulator set up to support real world flight training.   Presently with X-Plane + REP, I can practice the full gamut of ACS maneuvers including stalls to keep fresh.   

What do others say?   What is missing here??

What do I say? Wait for the release and test it yourself. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by ca_metal

[frankla 45]

8 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

Asobo has touted new physics:

Aerodynamic Modeling – A state-of-the-art physics engine with over 1,000 control surfaces per plane allows for a truly realistic experience.

FSElite (Calum Martin) who just two weeks ago, had a private conference with the top managers of the MS/Asobo team replied to my concerns about stall behaviour on a recent video saying " That means nothing.  Trust me, it's there and it works well." 

However another Beta Tester responding to my concerns said FS2020 is still using the FSX flight model.  He then later added:  "Open the dr400 .air file, copy everything in the 747 .air file. The 747 will fly EXACTLY like the DR400. So where did the flight model based on the shape of the plane ? "

Physics matter to me immensely as I use my quite expensive simulator set up to support real world flight training.   Presently with X-Plane + REP, I can practice the full gamut of ACS maneuvers including stalls to keep fresh.   

What do others say?   What is missing here??

Didn't Asobo say that both physics engines are available and you get to choose whichever you like?  In that case, isn't it any surprise that the FSX air files are there too?

[devgrp 1,233]

4 minutes ago, frankla said:

Didn't Asobo say that both physics engines are available and you get to choose whichever you like?  In that case, isn't it any surprise that the FSX air files are there too?

Bingo! 

[virtuali 4,484]

MSFS 2020 supports two Flight Models, the new one, and the one from FSX. You can even choose which one to use from the settings.

By default, an airplane made for MSFS 2020 doesn't come with any .AIR files and, in fact, none of the airplanes included come with an .AIR file. The flight model parameters are in a new file called flight_model.cfg and per SDK documentation, an .AIR file is optional and it's considered to be obsolete.

I guess that, if you place an .AIR file in the airplane main folder, the sim will automatically switch to the "Legacy" FSX Flight Model for that plane, regardless of your preferences, which makes sense for developers wanting to port an airplane that would fly in the new sim exactly as it did in FSX.

And that mislead that tester to assume the "flight model it's the same", because of that test he made without knowing all the facts. And this guys, is exactly how Urban Legends are born.

Edited August 16, 2020 by virtuali

[Chock 17,769]

7 minutes ago, frankla said:

Didn't Asobo say that both physics engines are available and you get to choose whichever you like?  In that case, isn't it any surprise that the FSX air files are there too?

Yup.

If it helps, think of the flight modeling engine in the sim like a car engine, and think of the flight file as the fuel going in that engine. You could put fancy high octane fuel in an engine, or you could put cheap 2 star petrol in there. They'll both run it, but one will do it much better than the other.

[bean_sprout 1,201]

LOL

bs

[LHookins 3,117]

LOL!!!!!!  This is the same guy arguing with Dudley over on the A2A forums about various aspects of flying and flight training.  He brought up a link to Rod Machado's site to prove his point... at which point Dudley said he was friends with Rod and had many of the same discussions with him.

Imagine a pre-schooler arguing with an OB/GYN about where babies come from.

Hook

 

[SAPilot 213]

6 minutes ago, virtuali said:

MSFS 2020 supports two Flight Models, the new one, and the one from FSX. You can even choose which one to use from the settings.

By default, an airplane made for MSFS 2020 doesn't come with any .AIR files and, in fact, none of the airplanes included come with an .AIR file. The flight model parameters are in a new file called flight_model.cfg and per SDK documentation, an .AIR file is optional and it's considered to be obsolete.

I guess that, if you place an .AIR file in the airplane main folder, the sim will automatically switch to the "Legacy" FSX Flight Model for that plane, regardless of your preferences, which makes sense for developers wanting to port an airplane that would fly in the new sim exactly as it did in FSX.

And that mislead that tester to assume the "flight model it's the same", because of that test he made without knowing all the facts. And this guys, is exactly how Urban Legends are born.

Amen !!!

[Amon1973 1,429]

The OP has either got his wires crossed or trying to put out false info, seeing as you've been corrected are you happy with what you've been told?

[LHookins 3,117]

1 minute ago, eaim said:

The OP has either got his wires crossed or trying to put out false info, seeing as you've been corrected are you happy with what you've been told?

"You can always tell an XPlane user..." You know the rest.

Hook

[DavidP 1,426]

I think the pre-release tension is starting to mess with people.

[ckyliu 1,749]

30 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

"Open the dr400 .air file, copy everything in the 747 .air file. The 747 will fly EXACTLY like the DR400. So where did the flight model based on the shape of the plane ? "

Of course it will do that, they never said the flight dynamics were based purely on the shape of the plane, they just said they calculate upto 1000 points instead of just one. Also air files are for the legacy flight model as far as I know. Anyway, I think you're confusing it with Xplane's BET, MFS is still using lookup tables. But plenty of real world pilots are quite happy with how MFS flies in alpha/beta, although it is not perfect (neither is Xplane either, despite what Austin might say!)

Edited August 16, 2020 by ckyliu

[LHookins 3,117]

32 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

However another Beta Tester responding to my concerns said FS2020 is still using the FSX flight model.  He then later added:  "Open the dr400 .air file, copy everything in the 747 .air file. The 747 will fly EXACTLY like the DR400. So where did the flight model based on the shape of the plane ? "

Wait, what?  

There are no .air files in MSFS.  Someone is a tad confused.  Not to mention that with the same data that would be in an air file, the rest of the config files modify it.

Something is wrong here and it ain't MSFS.

Hook

[SierraHotel 994]

35 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

What do others say?

That you are completely misinformed.