On 9/16/2020 at 8:18 AM, rstough said:

Metar's is about as accurate as you can get.  It is reported data directly from a human or an automated station.  The simulator uses model data. This would be data generated from computer models and though you may have some accurate points, there are often misses.  Don't get me wrong the sim is AMAZING.  But we felt the weather engine could be greatly improved.  Plus our plan is to integrate archived weather after the initial release.

I think I prefer the model approach, as it seems more dynamic - even if it sometimes is not 100% accurate.

But more importantly I wanted to give you a thumbs up for your professional response! This is one of the reasons why I don't miss going back to XP. Developers or even portals, so invested in their sim and product, they feel personally offended as soon as there is any type of criticism!

You just showed, how it is done! Argue factual! 👍 You won't win customers by fighting with them, but probably loose some who witness the behavior.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by tweekz

Looks like REX is going the opposite way than Asobo:

Asobo started from models and said they would try to interpolate METAR

REX starts from METAR and tries to interpolate models

In theory both should get a perfect end result: correct METAR depiction at airports and credible weather elsewhere.

We've already seen how difficult it was for MS + Asobo + Meteoblue to just get into the first step of their path.

We'll have to see how REX did its..

5 minutes ago, Marco Manieri said:

Looks like REX is going the opposite way than Asobo:

Asobo started from models and said they would try to interpolate METAR

REX starts from METAR and tries to interpolate models

Well, actually it's the same. Just the data source is different.

Meteoblue uses their weather stations. REX uses METAR data.

Both then use models to interpolate.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by tweekz

This gets a hard pass from me. 

Microsoft and Asobo have stated that MSFS is a 10 year project and I expect Asobo to keep improving the sim in all aspects including weather depiction.

Patience is a virtue. The sim will continue to get better with time.

 

 

 

I’m willing to give the MSFS team some time to keep working on live weather. It is clearly a WIP. I love the idea of modeling the atmosphere the way they have. But they have to adjust that modeling to place more emphasis on currently reported conditions. The team keeps touting that this is the first sim that will allow you to do true VFR anywhere. Well a very important part of VFR cross country planning is understanding forecast weather and winds aloft. If MSFS continues to rely on a model that is so significantly different from actual reported conditions, they are going to have to provide a weather briefing tool for their model! Right now there is no way to tell what the heck their weather model is doing. 

2 hours ago, Marco Manieri said:

In theory both should get a perfect end result: correct METAR depiction at airports and credible weather elsewhere.

Nope.

If you interpolate METARS out of a model simulation you never get exact weather on the airports, thats clear as daylight. 

If METARS were some golden perfect thing.

METAR is used to tell the actual meteorological conditions on a station, airport or area indicating day/time wind, clouds, precipitations, altimeter pressure and temperature, it has a duration of 60 minutes and it is updated every hour.

So if you anything from 15-55 minutes later than the report who knows what you will get, it is a forecast nothing more. Could be perfect could be totally wrong. So lets not make out there some God like perfect thing.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by Nyxx

15 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

If METARS were some golden perfect thing.

METAR is used to tell the actual meteorological conditions on a station, airport or area indicating day/time wind, clouds, precipitations, altimeter pressure and temperature, it has a duration of 60 minutes and it is updated every hour.

So if you anything from 15-55 minutes later than the report who knows what you will get, it is a forecast nothing more. Could be perfect could be totally wrong. So lets not make out there some God like perfect thing.

A METAR is a word not allowed perfect thing as it is the EXACT weather on an EXACT place at an EXACT time. Its updated every 30 minutes and even in time when there are dangerous things like thunderstorm happen. During my service on LOXL at the austrian army airforce i worked with them myself, got the data live in the middle of the airport and fed the international IT-System with it.

Holy word not allowed, why do you think the whole aviation relys on them? For godsake, even the models you are mentioning time after time are based on them!

How can simulated forecast data be better then REAL hard data its based on?

Why do pilots check the weather data short before landing when they have already the forecast data they have gotten maybe 8 hrs. short before takeoff?

Is this really SO hard to understand?

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by JoeFackel
typo

Does P3d Do all that Joe in the way you described above? does it?

Come on Joe tell us does P3D update just how you say above, come on Joe does it or does it not?

BTW am not saying simulated forecast data is better, or would you like to quote me were I said that? am just saying nothing is perfect and P3D AS does not update as you say. So get real Joe. You have done nothing but make sarcastic remarks at MSFS for months at any chance you have had. So I will ask you one last time does AS and P3D give you nothing more than a forecast, as we are talking about a sim here and not real life, no sim is being updated by someone sitting at an airport^^ is it?

Is this really SO hard to understand?

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by Nyxx

Dude, don't twist my words. Its not about P3D here and MSFS there. Its all about that some of you didn't get your head around the difference between weather models and weather data.

To say weather data based on models is better than based on real weather data would be like saying to learn flying in a simulator is better then to learn it in a real plane.

Whats better? The weather data for KORD tomorrow 1400UTC we can get from an forecast model or the weather data we get when the weather guy steps out from his office on this exact moment?  

Meteoblue and Asobo cant even get the temps right and barely the winds, so I will for sure be buying this now...

I understand it perfectly, but we are talking about it within a simulation hench the name of the forum and the point is there all forecasts and none is perfect unlike as you point out speaking to someone at an airport IRL.

It's never going to be perfect with P3D or MSFS. I do agree METAR would be great to use but it's still just a forecast and is only as good at the time of that update, not like the ones IRL the ones used within the sim.

@JoeFackel, I know you understand that a METAR is an observation of current weather and not a forecast. A METAR is also only good for a very limited immediate area of the report. So a model has to be built to interpolate between stations. Heck even a Terminal Aerodrome Forecast is only good out to about 5 miles from the airport. So again if you only source METAR and TAFs, something has to be used to interpolate between stations. Not to mention that there has always been a huge gap in upper atmospheric modeling in sims. I LOVE the approach that Asobo/MeteoBlue are taking, It has the potential to be so much more complete, dynamic and sophisticated than simply hacking together a bunch of METARs. But they are going to have put FAR more emphasis on current observations in their modeling.

 

 

33 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

So a model has to be built to interpolate between stations.

Sure, you have to interpolate between stations, based on models for example. But thats not what i'm talking about.

Some said METARS are not necesseserly correct (sorry, WHAT???) and one even said that MSFS engine is interpolating the METARS from the model (i REALLY hope that was just BS talking because of ignorance). Things that let me shiver because METARs and other weather station data are the ONLY hard data we and businesses like METEOBLUE have from the weather.  

12 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Some said METARS are not necesseserly correct (sorry, WHAT???)

METARS are only correct for observations below 20.000 feet. Any high level clouds will not be reported and just read as CAVOK.

But there are many conditions in which a METAR would report CAVOK, yet the sky would be anything but blue.