I agree, Joe, and again, MSFS is going to have to put METAR input at a much higher priority in their weather depiction. But jumping on board with an old model that relies only on METAR data and tries to fill in the huge gaps feels a little like throwing the baby out with the bathwater at this point in the product life cycle. I'm not completely writing off what REX is offering here, but it is a solution of LAST resort for me. I'm betting the MSFS engine will get much better. Unfortunately it looks like it is going to take more time than the expectations set by the slick MSFS marketing videos.

All I know is, weather is so important and could be deadly in real life flying. Once I was flying the American Decathlon (Tailwheel) and doing landing practice on a windy day at Alliance airport in Ft. Worth TX and noticed dark storm clouds over Denton and beyond and figured I could do 1 or 2 more touch and goes (10 minutes or so, before I return to Northwest region (52F) close by (my home airport) and boy was I wrong, By the time I turned left base, I got caught and had to frantically run to 52F and miraculously landed the thing and taxied back to the hanger without getting blown upside down. Scared the bejeezes out of me.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by Manny

On 9/16/2020 at 1:18 AM, rstough said:

Metar's is about as accurate as you can get.  It is reported data directly from a human or an automated station.  The simulator uses model data. This would be data generated from computer models and though you may have some accurate points, there are often misses.  Don't get me wrong the sim is AMAZING.  But we felt the weather engine could be greatly improved.  Plus our plan is to integrate archived weather after the initial release.

rstough,

Reading through this thread I've seen you mention that you are still using MeteoBlue's model data in places.  Specifically you mentioned over the oceans and around the coastlines.  I understand what it is you are doing with Weather Force and I have shared the same concerns about the lack of METAR data in the Alpha/Beta and now release version of the sim.  Most of the time I've tried the weather is not correct at the airports.  My question is are you still using MeteoBlue's model data or any model data in places other than the ocean's and coastlines?  I'm wondering is the METAR data just used around the airports and then interpolated with model data in other places over land where there are gaps in METAR data?  If it's all blended together well then I see how this could be a great thing.  If the model data is only used over the oceans and you are limited to METAR data everywhere else (over land) then it seems that we are limiting ourselves.  But maybe this is not possible which is why ASOBO hasn't done it yet either?

 

Brandon

5 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

REX Simulations does.

HifiSim talks: "Sadly, Damian did say that right now they are not aware of any way to bring weather interpretation into the simulator or what the possibilities will be." (insert sad face emoji here). Source: FSElite.net

Surely you're not serious?

REX are the masters of meaningless marketing talk and hype. We've been hearing all sorts of fluff about their update progress for P3Dv5 compatibility of their products. Five months later, what have they actually delivered - nothing. Zero. Zilch. 

HiFi have weather engine updates out the door and available to the public within hours of a new hotfix or point release.

Skyforce was supposed to bring us a revolutionary weather engine that would change simulation forever. What did we get? A rudimentary engine that was then described as a placeholder, because the "real" engine - weather force - was coming soon as a free addition. That was years ago, did we ever get it? No.

Now, REX suddenly develops a Weatherforce that works with MSFS, despite HiFi and REX agreeing that there's no SDK to do this with? It's either vaporware or it's using a hack to inject Metars. If the latter - what about stability and performance? Will it need to be updated after MSFS is updated, and if so will that take the 6 months (or years) we've got used to waiting?

Old REX made good 2D cloud sprites. New REX seems to be primarily skilled at arguing with their customers on aviation forums. 

I would not part with money for this product until it is released and proven to work NOW, rather than buying based on future promises of functionality which may never eventuate.

20 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Now, REX suddenly develops a Weatherforce that works with MSFS, despite HiFi and REX agreeing that there's no SDK to do this with? It's either vaporware or it's using a hack to inject Metars. If the latter - what about stability and performance? Will it need to be updated after MSFS is updated, and if so will that take the 6 months (or years) we've got used to waiting?

Correction, they build their "own SDK". Which is kinda weird, how have they built it? Did they have access to MSFS source code or what? 

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by omarsmak30

19 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

Correction, they build their "own SDK". Which is kinda weird, how have they built it? Did they have access to MSFS source code or what? 

From their announcement page they state they are using IPC from MSFS to their WF app (<->).
So it is logical they build their own SDK for the process and their APP.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by RamonB

43 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

REX are the masters of meaningless marketing talk and hype. We've been hearing all sorts of fluff about their update progress for P3Dv5 compatibility of their products.

This is your personal opinion.

The product will update itself with MSFS updates, that is the idea.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by fs1

11 minutes ago, fs1 said:

This is your personal opinion.

The product will update itself with MSFS updates, that is the idea.

Of course it's my personal opinion - it's a public forum and that's what we all post, notwithstanding the fact that REX seems to want to try to control the discussion in threads where their products are mentioned.

I note that my copy of Skyforce seems to have failed to update itself after five months of use in Prepar3d v5, and has also failed to update to the full weather engine version 2 years or so after this was promised!

Well in the add-on weather market, I will say that one developer seems to model the philosophy of "under promise, over deliver" ....and one has really pretty pictures on their website.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by snglecoil

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this new product will have it, but the one thing I miss in the default MSFS weather system (aside from accuracy) is any ability to set user limits on the injected real weather, like I can do in ActiveSkyX. 

I do a lot of flying in areas like the PNW where the wind speed at certain times of the year make it impossible to fly light GA planes and helicopters. I still like flying in the real cloud layers though, so I need the ability to cap the maximum wind speeds. I also like being able to set a minimum cloud base, so I can complete flights and still have a taste of the real weather. 

These user adjustments don't exist in the current MSFS interface, and I would pay for a good real weather add-on that included it.

 

8 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

...the one thing I miss in the default MSFS weather system (aside from accuracy) is any ability to set user limits on the injected real weather, like I can do in ActiveSkyX. 

... I need the ability to cap the maximum wind speeds. I also like being able to set a minimum cloud base, so I can complete flights and still have a taste of the real weather. 

These user adjustments don't exist in the current MSFS interface, and I would pay for a good real weather add-on that included it.

 

+1

That and historic weather is what I really miss in MSFS when it comes to weather.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by RALF9636

On 9/16/2020 at 8:07 AM, rstough said:

We hope they do fix it so it is no skin off our back.  We built WF because we saw that there was definitely some issues.  In addition, we also wanted to provide archive as well as custom dynamic weather scenarios.

I believe that what Asobo has done is amazing, but there is definitely a difference between metar and model data.  Model data is based upon a grid which covers the world.  Most global models cannot get to that level.  There are some local models that can, but again they are at best forecasts.  Metar is real data reported from an observer.  So WF is built from metar data.  If  it says a thunderstorm you will get a thunderstorm.

Whatever! All I wanna say is thank you, and welcome onboard. I'll buy your product, and then can use either yours, or the MSFS built-in weather, or both, depending on my preference/mood/whatever. Heck I might use no weather at all if I feel like it. I see nothing wrong with that. The point is: with you making this product, now we have more options and competition. Why are people hating options and competition? If you think you can do weather more accurate than X Y Z company, please go ahead and be my guest. Let noone stop you. All I'm asking from you guys is to price the product a bit sensibly. Don't go and charge $60 for this. Think about it: according to your own admission the default weather (which is subject to change, improvement, fixes etc in future) isn't too bad. If you charge $60 for your addon, it would turn off quite a lot of people. Charge a decent price (and I'm not gonna decide for you how much it should be) and we will support you. 

P.S. while some people don't use/need historical/archived weather, I and many others would definitely have a desire it. I wanna recreate the flight I took to visit Japan for the first time a decade ago, for example. With the default weather system I can't do that.

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by EvidencePlz

I would like to see REX more on SimAir program than on weather engines. give us a reason to fly from A to B

I understand they are good in weather engines, but I believe we still have to wait to see if Asobo fixes the issues with Microsoft weather engine. Because for me it is the biggest improvement in flight sims we have ever seen. Those clouds visually and in performance are AMAZING!!! 

Edited September 17, 20205 yr by Japo32

4 hours ago, Nyxx said:

If METARS were some golden perfect thing.

METAR is used to tell the actual meteorological conditions on a station, airport or area indicating day/time wind, clouds, precipitations, altimeter pressure and temperature, it has a duration of 60 minutes and it is updated every hour.

So if you anything from 15-55 minutes later than the report who knows what you will get, it is a forecast nothing more. Could be perfect could be totally wrong. So lets not make out there some God like perfect thing.

And model data, which is all that is available now, can be up to 12 hour old.

15 minutes ago, B777ER said:

And model data, which is all that is available now, can be up to 12 hour old.

You forgot to quote me here.

3 hours ago, Nyxx said:

It's never going to be perfect with P3D or MSFS. I do agree METAR would be great to use but it's still just a forecast and is only as good at the time of that update, not like the ones IRL the ones used within the sim.