Anyone else seen this with EA enabled ?

Dawn above the clouds :

Dawn below the clouds :

Also you can see several objects appearing black. If I am correct this needs to be fixed by the addon developers ( Orbx and FT ) .. ?

 

33 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Anyone else seen this with EA enabled ?

Dawn above the clouds :

Dawn below the clouds :

Also you can see several objects appearing black. If I am correct this needs to be fixed by the addon developers ( Orbx and FT ) .. ?

 

Exactly like my pictures to. I do see this as well. Also going slowly up just below thick cloud layers make the cloud downside look almost black short before entering the clouds. To much black in my opinion.

But back to your topic.:

Yes two things I am seeing which are not correct:

- Too much orange below the clouds. Too much orange sun light scattering I think. Should be more greyish

- Objects appearing through the "fog". I already opened a Thread at ORBX about this and the feedback was not that positive. There MAY be a workaround they stated. Find my link below. regarding LM the 3 Party Devs have probably to make changes related to AlphaBlend as some "parameters" are not supported anymore.

The most obvious issues seem to be with FSDreamteam products, Aerosoft, ORBX TE, ORBX HDBuildings and ORBX airports and its surroundings.

Link to ORBX opened topic HERE

Link to ORBX statement regarding the Objects issues through FOG HERE 

QUOTE LM DEV

"

QUOTE FROM THE LM DEV from LM Support forum about the strange Object appearance within P3D V5.X EA mode on.

Hello,

We are working to fix default content that also has this issue. For 5.1 we made several fixes and plan to incorporate more in the next update. In most cases this is due to the improper use of blend modes with alpha testing content and the z write alpha flag which is no longer supported. If you are using alpha testing, in most cases you don't also need to be blending.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy"

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by mpo910

I think Rob said that all airports would need updating to work fully with PBR with 5.1?

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by Nyxx

24 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I think Rob said that all airports would need updating to work fully with PBR with 5.1?

Well, to me it is not fully clear.

I don´t need PBR updates, I whish them, but don´t need them AS LONG as these strange appearances are not related to PBR.

If there is a proper solution to make objects taking advantage of fog again, without implementing PBR, that would be fine too.

But I am not familiar enough on this. Maybe someone can explain it clearly what has to be done at an minimum to avoid SimObjects passing through fog comparable to the stock LM Objects which did already received updates on this (some are missing, but LM is working on them).

@Rob_Ainscough: Would you explain it (again)? I would like to understand what has to be done from who and if it technical  CAN be done.....if you have time...;-) 

Marcus

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by mpo910

Here is a picture at EHAM just below entering a thick cloud layer...

Too black if you ask me. Also the transition into it is not smooth (changing color abruptly).

See the picture about this HERE

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by mpo910

Thanks for posting 👍

I have opened a thread about the orange atmosphere at the LM forum :

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=140098

Feel free to join there too to get the attention from LM. I forgot to add that, imho, there is too much haze when standing on the ground in general. 
From 5000 ft and up it looks better as in real life you then can see the haze/Raleigh scattering very good.

Also a thread about the black objects at FlyTampa because of EHAM :

https://www.flytampa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14259

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by GSalden

8 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Thanks for posting 👍

I have opened a thread about the orange atmosphere at the LM forum :

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=140098

Feel free to join there too to get the attention from LM. I forgot to add that, imho, there is too much haze when standing on the ground in general. 
From 5000 ft and up it looks better as in real life you then can see the haze/Raleigh scattering very good.

Also a thread about the black objects at FlyTampa because of EHAM :

https://www.flytampa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14259

Thanks!

I also opened a thread at LM about the thick black cloud layer appearance to dark just below entering them

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=140099#p229435

 

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by mpo910

1 hour ago, mpo910 said:

Well, to me it is not fully clear.

I don´t need PBR updates, I whish them, but don´t need them AS LONG as these strange appearances are not related to PBR.

If there is a proper solution to make objects taking advantage of fog again, without implementing PBR, that would be fine too.

But I am not familiar enough on this. Maybe someone can explain it clearly what has to be done at an minimum to avoid SimObjects passing through fog comparable to the stock LM Objects which did already received updates on this (some are missing, but LM is working on them).

@Rob_Ainscough: Would you explain it (again)? I would like to understand what has to be done from who and if it technical  CAN be done.....if you have time...;-) 

Marcus

All you have to do is mouse roll over someone name ( left of topic) pop up window>find content and you would find your answer.

Rob,

"TrueSKY atmospherics (scattering) I like ... but as pointed out, legacy FSX objects will need to be update to deal with the alpha issues present in both V4 and V5.  As pointed out, I'm not entirely sure how willing existing 3rd party content providers are going to be about adding:

1.  Alpha/Z changes to their objects and reduce the compression complexity so we don't see objects bleed true scatter/visibility/clouds

2.  Adding PBR to all their objects for older/existing content

3.  Adding material scripting so we get realistic weather effects on the ground (water puddles, snow, etc.) to all older/existing content

That's a lot of work for what might be $0 vs. doing that "new" work (even if it's older airports ported over) for MSFS for $XX.  Since most people want to get paid for doing work the "sell" is in favor of MSFS.

Cheers, Rob."

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by Nyxx

I haven't tried dusk or dawn yet so when I saw this thread I tired it out. I see the same thing. Although I haven't been able to produce what is in the screenshot that mpo910 posted.

ORBX is NOT amused.....look at this reply from Nick Cooper

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/201443-prepar3d-v51/?do=findComment&comment=1720672

It will be questionable if they do really change something. Honestly I do think as a paying customer from products which a supplier states it is compatible with V5, I do also expect that. Here we are NOT talking about missing PBR. But we are talking about missing parameters which SHOULD be set to make the objects appear like they should and not behave strange like they do now.

I do understand Nicks reaction although.....but that is "business" as usual if you are developping for a "changing" platform.

If you share my thoughts I would like to ask you to reply on my topic at ORBX Support forum too to let them know we want their products also to be updated.

What do you think?

Marcus

11 minutes ago, Joseph29 said:

I haven't tried dusk or dawn yet so when I saw this thread I tired it out. I see the same thing. Although I haven't been able to produce what is in the screenshot that mpo910 posted.

It is done by very slow climbing to near the cloud base coverage.....there is a  "FL range" below the cloud base where you get this heavy black colors. I can reproduce it every single time. 

No tweaks, no addon shadings...just truesky.

Marcus 

For now I will go back to regular weather and not TrueSky.

- orange/gold glow around you when you are below clouds in dusk/dawn

- to much haze, especially when using a zoom of 0.60 

- you can see black objects below the clouds when flying above the clouds ; eg windmills and towers in TE Netherlands and taxiway and runway signs 

V5.1 shows its potentional but has been released 1-2 months too early ..

 

 

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I responded in that thread here: 

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/201443-prepar3d-v51/?do=findComment&comment=1720742

LM's suggestions to help mitigate the issue:

• Flagging the placements to not batch if you are re-using the same transparent object across large areas. If the objects are close together with no other transparencies between them, this should be okay in most situations.
• Avoid using z write alpha flag, it hasn't been supported for some time.
• Use alpha to coverage / alpha testing instead of transparent blends where appropriate.
• If you are transparent blending a quad over the terrain, make sure it is flagged as a decal with the correct order.

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob. Appreciated it!

Regards, Marcus

LM might as well give us all access to beta builds b/c all we are doing is testing.  

On 10/30/2020 at 5:15 PM, Rob_Ainscough said:

I responded in that thread here: 

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/201443-prepar3d-v51/?do=findComment&comment=1720742

LM's suggestions to help mitigate the issue:

• Flagging the placements to not batch if you are re-using the same transparent object across large areas. If the objects are close together with no other transparencies between them, this should be okay in most situations.
• Avoid using z write alpha flag, it hasn't been supported for some time.
• Use alpha to coverage / alpha testing instead of transparent blends where appropriate.
• If you are transparent blending a quad over the terrain, make sure it is flagged as a decal with the correct order.

Cheers, Rob.

 

@Rob_Ainscough

Are ORBX ignoring this or can it be you both have different information about possible solutions? 

See the post from Larry at ORBX from yesterday. I don´t get it anymore. But I do get the impression (just a impression) that they ignore this and the ball is "back at LM"?

I would really like to get rid of these immersion killing through cloud shining objects as this would enhance the sim a lot!

Link to a post from Larry at ORBX yesterday (after you send Nick/him a message)

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/201502-p3dv51-issue-with-3d-elements-ground-poly-autogen-not-blending-with-the-haze-in-ea-mode-is-still-there/?do=findComment&comment=1720851

Marcus